Report to SS or not?

[agirlhasnomoney]

I'm in two minds about whether to report some neighbors to SS.... or not.

Some close neighbors of ours have arguments, as we all do lets face it.
But these seem to be on a whole other level and are putting me on high alert.
they are real humdinger arguments of the 'fuck you, you piece of no good worthless piece of shit' variety) on a daily basis.
The 5 year old son is witness to all the arguments. And is often heard by the neighbor (me) trying to placate both parents.
Every time these neighbors argue, I can hear the small child crying.

Report?
Or not?

I don't know what to do.

What would you do?

Thanks making
Reporting to the school will only make the op feel better that she's not reporting to social services though. The end result will be exactly the same because the school will absolutely pass it on. The school will not decide if it's a safeguarding issue, they don't have the remit to do that.

I absolutely think that it is emotionally and psychologically abusive for any 5 year old to be living in a house of almost daily contention. An argument here and there is one thing. But almost daily? There is no doubt that it will be having a detrimental effect on the child's cognitive emotional functioning and growth. It may not manifest itself straight away, but in time, feelings of low self esteem, profound anxiety, inability to resolve problems, and possible disengagement at school may be the result of constant unhappiness at home.

If you don't feel bold enough to contact SS then by all means approach the school, but as LadyStark said, they will only contact SS themselves. I usually urge people to avoid SS interference if they can, but I remember growing up in a house where my parents fought constantly, and by the time we left, both my brother and I were nervous wrecks at 10 and 7 years old. As an adult, I have battled anxiety and depression that never entirely leaves me.

Please remember that when we are young we are incredibly vulnerable to social and behavioural conditioning, and evidence is emerging that our brains adapt in response, possibly leading to a lifetime of emotional difficulties. This child is 5. I would report.

Other option is to call the police - they are causing a breach of the peace.

Police will then refer onto SS.

Please report. You might be another piece to the jigsaw which allows social services to see there is a problem and support the family. The arguments sound like they are beyond "normal" family arguments and they are happening very frequently.

I agree with Marking

lady, you are missing the point about what schools do

Good teachers keep an eye, watch out for anxieties, mraculously find moments to be a listening ear, tell stories that may send a helpful message, have, in short, a vocation.

Reporting to ss is a thing they do, it's not what they are.

I'm not missing the point
The point I was making was that the op suggested she would inform the school instead of social services as a way to be less 'punitive'
My point being the end result is the same, but the op will feel less guilty
In fact, the school may not even want to take this information, they may advise her to contact social services. They are just becoming middle men otherwise.
I agree that schools can do a huge amount in supporting families, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making

No, the end result is not the same.. school may well report, who knows? that is not the OP's business.. reports are reports. Reports are not results.

but teachers are central figures in a child's life

Meetings,actions,plans....... that is not lived reality.. A few well chosen moments to ask if the child is ok? someone who realizes a child may need someone to chat with?. That truly matters.

I haven't read the whole thread but OP there is no harm in reporting.
Thresholds are high so I think it's dramatic of people to say the effects are 'catastrophic'. The only time they are really catastrophic effects I imagine are when you report that a child is being sexually or physically abused, and there is proof.

You could report to the school, but they couldn't really refer then as it would be hearsay (if parents refer stuff to us about another child, it counts for nothing when we phone social services, it needs to be first hand).

It could be nothing but, it's incredibly stressful for small children and babies to hear or witness parental conflict like this. SS may well refer to HV or other services.

I think it's likely they'd know you referred though.

If you live in my city, this would not come even close to the threshold for SS to look into.

The point of telling the school is not to generate more reports.

a good teacher, a good TA, does more important things than that. Every day.

I know this is different but I had cause to report a family member about two years ago.

The father was being aggressive to the teenagers, not giving the mother enough money for nutritious food whilst wearing the best clothes himself & treating them all like his slaves.

After witnessing him punch one teenage son in the back I left their home, pulled my car into the nearest village & Googled the local social services.

I reported anonymously that afternoon (a Saturday!!) & the woman received a call on the Monday.

SS were concerned given the ages of the children, the number of them & the fact that if he was comfortable enough to punch the child in front of visitors, what does he do when they're alone?

The mother asked me if it was me reported the family. I said no but I had been thinking of it - she admitted there were a number of incidents that others could have reported.

SS gave them something called family support, the father said he was under pressure being the only bread winner & his wife kept getting pregnant, she couldn't be trusted with finances therefore he didn't give her access to any.

As far as I know SS helped them with parenting classes - maybe something like this is what's needed in your neighbours case?

Thresholds are high so I think it's dramatic of people to say the effects are 'catastrophic'.

I completely disagree having witnessed the long term anxiety and stress on a family wrongly accused/ investigated. As I said, ss were lovely to this family and it came to nothing, but the fact they were called and came was more stressful than anyone could have imagined.

123 what were they accused of?

Sorry if my last post was snippy (no if, it was). It isn't normal for this level of shouting and swearing and aggressiveness as an everyday occurance.

I would either mention it to the school to alert them or go directly to SS. It might get them some help they need

i would report.
they are real humdinger arguments of the 'fuck you, you piece of no good worthless piece of shit' variety) on a daily basis.
The 5 year old son is witness to all the arguments. And is often heard by the neighbor (me) trying to placate both parents.
The trying to placate both parents bit is the bit I find most disturbing - absolutely no way on earth should a five year old be feeling that level of responsibility, that is deeply, deeply damaging to a child trapped in a dysfunctional household.

The stress that child is feeling far outweighs any stress caused to the parents by being reported, and if it is PND SS will be far more interested in supporting this mother through it than wading in and taking a child away.

Emotional abuse and possible neglect- actually it was ruled a malicious allegation which makes it a very different to this as obviously OP is acting out of concern.
My point though, is that both the mother and father suffered significant anxiety because of ss involvement.
However, as a teacher I've seen the huge amount of good ss can do and I did admit that watching someone I love go through an investigation means I am sensitive to the instant 'call ss' comments- of course they need to be called sometimes but mn is rife with comments urging these calls and it frustrates and worries me

This does seem to be an unhealthy situation and I feel for op's dilemma as I'd be conflicted too

The police will arrest you for harassment. That is what they do these days when you have a concern and report to SS.

well i fear you do need to get someone involved.
if he is at school, tell school.
otherwise ring nspcc

the child needs some intervention

123 - that is sad, but was some of the distress caused by the fact it was malicious and the additional context? A friend of mine was investigated after child said she hit him. V stressful but only very short term, and totally forgotten since.

i have had call to ring nspcc, who told me I had to tell school.
school took my call seriously.

please do it

Throughout this thread, and others, we can see the tension between situations that will harm a child, and the thresholds for social services to act. These two levels are not the same, and many children fall between that gap.

It leaves me wondering whether everything should be reported to give ss context and help them build a full picture, or whether contacting them with so many reports acts as a deluge of work to add to an overwhelmed and creaking system. It's hard to tell from outside that system and I think it would be useful to know from sw perspective?

By the way, in a system completely overwhelmed and with a massive shortfall of people and resources, what is this 'support' that everyone hopefully suggests will be provided for a struggling parent?

I suspect there is no practical support available, and no support of any kind until the very high thresholds are reached. But I'd be very happy to be wrong.

Yes apple and the fact it was obviously a neighbour but she never knew which one :-(
SS were so kind and understanding towards her actually, especially when they said they said they thought it was nothing but explained they still had to go through standard procedure (e.g contacting hv and school)

When you look back over high profile cases where children have been hurt, there are so many opportunities for people to have reported something. People don't, they simply think it can't be that bad. If the neighbour had reported the argument, if the teacher had reported the bruise. It's likely this isn't as extreme but parents fighting like this in front of children is NOT ok, no matter their mental state. If you report to school then they will be duty bound to report to ss. People may have negative experiences of SS when wrong accusations have been made but the OP isn't making it up. She can hear a 5year old trying to get his parents to stop arguing every couple of days. He is witnessing verbal aggression, which in turn will make him feel extremely unsafe. I would report this without a second thought.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36377293

Miscellaneous - I saw this last month