To Think expats shouldn't be able to vote in the EU referendum?

[Snowflakes1122]

Am I right? Those expats living abroad less than 15 years have a right to vote in the EU referendum?!

They decide to get out, then want to decide fate of those who stay behind and actually live here? AIBU to think they should duck off as it doesn't have anything to do with them since they left?

We paid just over $10k for DH to get his Greencard. That's about £7.5k. After he has lived here for 5 years he will have the right to apply for citizenship which is about $350.

To me approx £1k is cheap.

SuperMum I think in the US you get a lot more for your money than just the privilege of voting for a bunch of Westminster politicians who for the most part do not deserve much respect. There's the right to work, which is huge. As an EU citizen in the UK, I already have that currently. Though I will be going for citizenship as mentioned above, because I don't trust a post-Brexit government not to erode that right, or make it onerous and expensive to keep. I know that the Brexit brigade say that EU citizens currently here will be granted indefinite leave to remain, but how much are they going to charge for that? They have us over a barrel - stay and pay up, or leave. While the wrangling post-Brexit goes on, I'm going to use my time to become a citizen, not because I particularly want to (and the Dutch are getting really arsy about dual nationals, so I may lose my original citizenship), but because my whole life is here - work, pension, house, friends and family, I'd much rather have spent that £1.5 k on them, though.

It's a lot more than £1,000 now, once you add in the cost of obtaining the right to remain (a prerequisite from what I understand) and the obligatory tests.

I used to think that expats/emigrants/whatever you want to call us shouldn't vote. I have voluntarily abstained from voting the whole time I have lived abroad, on the grounds that I shouldn't have the right to choose a government that will enact fiscal policies that don't affect me directly (I have investments in the UK but benefit from double taxation agreements so although I pay some tax in the UK, I am only marginally affected by UK taxation).

I've had my mind changed though, after talking to other Britons who are denied the right to vote but are still obliged to pay tax and who still depend on the UK for reciprocal healthcare etc - the group most disadvantaged by the 15 year rule are those with government pensions (on which they continue to pay UK tax), there are a surprising numbers of them. I now disagree with the 15 year rule although if it is changed I will continue to abstain in general elections unless the UK changes its system for expat voting. In France for example, expats vote for specific expat MPs who represent their interests, they don't vote in their former constituencies - I would have voted in UK GEs if this had been the case, but it isn't.

However, the referendum is a different matter, and denying the right to vote to the group of British citizens who are the most directly and immediately affected by the result is wrong.

Despite what your DH paid for his greencard, 1,5k is still a lot of money for many people. Greencard is also essential for someone who wants to remain in US whereas British citizenship isn't essential to EU citizens to remain and work here. Well, so far that is.

It's understandable why people aren't willing to pay so much money and go through multiple hoops to gain British passport, because so far it really hasn't been that essential for someone from another EU country.

Voting is based on citizenship usually so of course they should be allowed to vote - they probably can't vote where they live. I don't think it's fair that many can't vote as they have been abroad too long - it effects them too.

I guess that is the other thing, I have always understood that I would have to give up my current nationality to gain the UK one. It took me quite a while to be ok with that idea. Nowadays I feel more British than Dutch but that didn't happen overnight.

It depends on the country - many countries allow dual citizenship. I am applying for Italian citizenship but I will still be British.

heli actually the Greencard is essential if you want to change jobs, have more than 180 days to leave should your employment be terminated (important if you have children and want them to be able to finish their academic year) or want to extend your stay beyond 2 inter company transfer visas. Having gone through the immigration process to Singapore too £1.5k is a bargin.

Want2bSupermum It seems your situation regarding citizenship is very different and not that relevant for the discussion on voting in the EU referendum for a EU citizen living in the UK.

allegretto the Netherlands do currently allow dual nationality - as long as you maintain links by, for instance, maintaining a valid Dutch passport. Which I do, for me and my DDs. However, there are rumblings that this could be set to change.

Bingo I have been here 19 years and I haven't started feeling British yet. I love it here - the language, the people, the humour, the quality of the light - but I just don't feel British and I am not sure I ever will, even if I do take UK citizenship.

pointythings I was told by the Dutch embassy that my children could have dual nationality until 18 and then they had to choose and take one nationality. Is this not correct?

Excuse me, the UK being in the EU has a huge bearing on my life as an expat, not just on the lives of people living in the UK. I have already voted, thanks, as is my right.

thetoothfairywhoforgot
Ds organised hos postal vote to come to our address in Belgium, as he thought it would arrive after the end of term. In fact it arrived mid to late May, and I dropped it off to him en route to a friend whilst I was back in the UK. His postal vote was cast before 10th June.

My Mum has already had the postal proxies for dh and myself, and has voted on our behalf.

For those who ask what assets some Brexpats have in the UK; a house we let out; we pay UK tax on lettings income; dh has a Forces pension which is taxed in the UK, and we will be moving back in 2019 when his current contract ends.

I don't know, Bingo - my DDs don't have UK nationality as my DH is a US citizen, so right now they are dual Dutch/US citizens. Last time I was at the Embassy for their passports, this wasn't mentioned.

Bingo found this - which suggests that whoever spoke to you at the Embassy was wrong. Your DC just have to obtain and keep renewing a Dutch passport.

It is wholly relevant. Your first post gave me the impression that you expecting to be considered equal to a British citizen because you have lived in the UK for 20 years. Until you are naturalized you are not equal. That's why after 20 years of living in the UK you don't have a say. Personally I would have saved up and paid the £1500 a long time ago.

DH pays a crap load in taxes and is an active member of our community. He does not have a say as to who will be President in November. He needs to reside here another 3 years until that can happen. As soon as he can he will apply. Having a Greencard doesn't allow him to vote in every election so he doesn't have a voice in all facets of our society. Citizenship will give him a vote so he can voice his opinion.

I am not at all expecting to be treated the same. No idea where you got that from. The point I was making was that I don't want the dubious privilege of voting in UK general elections. I can already vote locally and that is fine by me. If brexit loses I will still not naturalise because there will be no need. We could afford the money, but why should I give up my nationality if I don't have to? Not voting in Westminster elections seems like a fair price to pay.

We paid just over $10k for DH to get his Greencard. That's about £7.5k. After he has lived here for 5 years he will have the right to apply for citizenship which is about $350. To me approx £1k is cheap.

Wow that's a lot. My green card cost nowhere near that much.

Yes you are being incredibly unreasonable. Most of my family live across Europe but were born in Britain and have all massively contributed to British society in ways that some people currently living in Britain will never do. It also drastically effects their lives weather we stay or leave the EU so really they deserve a say.

Of course you should be able to vote in the country you were born and want to.

pointy I'm sorry I shoujd have been clear that I was responding to monsterbingo not you. Their first post included that they had been here 20 years and didn't have the right to vote and should because expats can't vote after being out of the country for 15 years.

Full of cold and a baby teething with a cold has not gone well today. Also shocked by the news. My friend is in a public position and I'm worried for her and her family.

I didn't stop being a British citizen when I relocated. I've heard it said, 'I changed my address, not my opinion.'

I've used my overseas voting rights for my postal vote and voted. Thank you.

(Just about the whole of the rest of the world can't believe that Britain is even contemplating leaving the E.U.)

Yabvu. I am an expat while this referendum is going on but only away for a year and back next Year. I think I have every right to vote.
Many expats have plans to return to the UK so obviously it effects them.
Also, all my friends and most of my family are in the UK - I want to vote to help them!
Your op really annoyed me - all expats are in different situations many haven't left for good

everybody from the commonwealth have the right to vote in the ref that is something I don't get.

It is only those who are resident in the UK.

Snow some people leave their countries because they cant stay with the current economy/ politics (like myself)
We still love our countries and want them to be better. We still payed our taxes and contributed to society in many a way for years.

Ten or 15 years is not a long time at all.