To Think expats shouldn't be able to vote in the EU referendum?

[Snowflakes1122]

Am I right? Those expats living abroad less than 15 years have a right to vote in the EU referendum?!

They decide to get out, then want to decide fate of those who stay behind and actually live here? AIBU to think they should duck off as it doesn't have anything to do with them since they left?

I think I am right in saying that if you are a Spanish citizen, you get to keep your vote, no matter how long you have lived outside Spain. All the rules for all EU countries should be standardised.

I believe the UK and Denmark are the only ones with an arbitrary cut-off point?

Ironic (and indeed hypocritical) to say that British citizens living abroad somehow magically lose all meaningful ties with the UK after 15 years. The whole concept of the Commonwealth is based on Britain's historical ties with the member countries, all of which have been independent for more than 15 years, and most for much longer.

The 15 year cut off is what is unreasonable along with the fact that not all British citizens are able to vote.

If there ever was a reason to vote leave its to get rid of Dave and his merry men who have no idea what democracy is. I don't like Boris but I would think a general election would be called. A vote for leave would also render UKIP powerless as their whole manifesto is based on leaving the EU!

As someone who is an immigrant to the U.S. there is a huge difference between an expat and an emigrant. An expat is on an inter company transfer or fixed term contract and has plans to return to their country of origin. An emigrant has no plans to return to their country of origin and is on a local contract due to locating permanent employment themselves with a new employer in the country they have or are planning to move to.

You are also forgetting that living abroad enables you to see things more clearly sometimes. Not all Brits living abroad are going to vote to leave the EU. Quite a few want to remain. Personally I voted out. I find the EU to be lacking in the democracy department and the only way to effectively change that is to vote out. It will give our leaders an excellent position to renegotiate the UKs position in Europe. Let's face it. The eu don't want the UK to leave. If we vote that way the talks will begin to neigotiate a better agreement for us.

lifeistooshort I know exactly what you mean, I am about to become a citizen of another EU country only because the law changed last year to allow dual citizebship. But the thing is, you still have a choice. You could become British, but you dont want to lose your other citizenship. And I think only citizens should have a say in this.

I don't think the plan is that expats and EU immigrants will be forced to move (although this could change) They may however not be entitled to health and social security and so choose to move

strawberry Danes must live in Denmark at the time of any election, or they cannot vote.

Mistigri I thought if you were a British citizen, and had been registered to vote at an address in the past 15 years, you could vote in this referendum. I'm reading your posts as you can't vote on 23 June, but are a British citizen. Did you leave before legal voting age? Or is there another group of people missed?

And yes, those resident in UK should get a say. Maybe similar time frame requirement to citizens, so if you've been there more than, say 5 (five) years you get a vote. Not sure how you would determine an EU citizens period of residence tho. Outside EU, visas will tell the story...

Strawberry interesting and very valid point about the Commonwealth!

redexpat I don't really agree I have a choice (and indeed you didn't take the same choice). It is a bit like a child having to chose between mummy and daddy in divorce proceedings. If both get on and there is no conflict, why would a choice be forced upon the person just because the rules are obsolete?

I think the government are planning on doing away with the 15 year cut off for voting soon.

Most expats who have been abroad for less than 15 years are abroad temporarily for work and have close ties to the UK and intend to return. If they're making use of EU freedom of movement they are amongst those British citizens potentially most affected by the outcome of the referendum. Of course they should have a vote.

Oh god this is just the Scottish referendum all over again. I'm from Glasgow and I was living in London during the referendum - I got told I was a "quisling" and that since I'd abandoned Scotland I'd no say in its future. Now I'm in Germany in time for the Brexit vote, and I'm getting told the same. In both cases, it mattered to me personally for the same reason - whether I ever return to the UK/Scotland/whatever the fuck is left after the effects of the vote next Thursday settle, I'm still going to have to travel on whatever Mickey Mouse passport you lot leave me with

Many years ago I met a young man whose parents were from East Germany and Czechslovakia. Both those countries ceased to exist, so he ended up getting two new passports - for the Federal Republic, and for Slovakia.

As for the indyref rules - I guess the issue was that it was too hard to decide who was Scottish outside Scotland. I have a friend who was born in Aberdeen but lived in Hampshire from the age of 8 months and had English parents - should she have had a vote? People like Steph Twell compete for Scotland but sound very English but have Scottish parents. It would have been too much of a mess.

eyebrowse, what plan? There is no plan. Nobody's got a clue what's going to happen to British citizens in the EU or EU citizens in the UK. The UK can make no guarantees to its citizens if it chooses to leave the EU, because it is a decision for the EU countries.

Of course it probably doesn't matter, because the chances are that if the UK wants to maintain access to EU free trade it will be forced to accept free movement, like Norway. But the leave campaign don't want to admit that's true.

I have some sympathy with this, 15 years is a long time - particularly for expats outside the EU who won't be affected by it. I know a fair few who are planning to vote out with no intention of living through the consequences and who may (or may not) return when the dust settles. Many countries have dual taxation agreements so they aren't paying UK tax (unless they have some source of income in the UK). Quite a few have no home here so wouldn't be affected by a property price crash, they are paid in local currency and their savings and pensions are safely offshore somewhere.

This is exactly why I'm not voting. I've lived in the US for 9 years and have no plans to move back to the UK. If Brexit happens, it won't really affect me. So I don't feel that I should vote - it's almost too easy to say 'Hey, let's vote Out and see what happens.'

I do think UK citizens in the EU should have a vote no matter how long they've lived away from the UK.

redexpat Did I understand correctly. Were you chiding lifeistooshort for nog giving up their citizenship of their country (probably of origin with familial ties) when you weren't prepared to do it yourself? Sorry that sounds incredibly pompous.

We're leaving shortly after the vote but still get a vote. Would you say we shouldn't be allowed to vote? DH and I are voting with out kids in mind as they may want to return. We may want to return in a few years if our plans don't work out.

I actually don't think it's fair that those from the EU who live and work here don't get a say.

This is a vote that affects expats. Not all have left and have no connections to here. I also thought it was unfair the Scottish living abroad didn't get a say in the Scottish referendum, whether that meant the split or not.

Indeed, the whole concept of the Commonwealth is based on Britain's historic ties with certain countries.

Ironic then, that my DH, who has 7 out of 8 great-grandparents born in the UK, has to jump through hoops and pay a fortune should he want to move to the UK permanently with me, whereas someone who may not speak English, understand the culture or want to integrate fully can move across tomorrow with no issue - just because they were born in an EU country.

I have googled but am confused. My dsis and bil have lived in Australia for 9 years. Are they entitled to a vote?

please, yes they are. But if they haven't registered, they're too late.

YABU.
British citizens can certainly 'have a say' op.
In fact you should be bloody glad we can.

100% of the expats I know are shocked and horrified that the 'leave' brigade seems to be actually gaining traction due to uninformed, middle England falling for their spin and press coverage. We wanted to do something about it for the sake of our savings, our pensions, our friends and family still living there and our futures should we want to return. Which incidentally I do.

YABU. I'm an expat because my husband's company offered him a choice between redundancy or a job abroad. WWYD? We still have a house in the UK and pay UK tax. Because of recent changes in tax legislation, we also can't sell our house as we can't afford the capital gains tax, so we are irrevocably tied to the UK. We have UK bank accounts. We have British passports. How are we any less qualified to vote than you? Or maybe..... you're just worried that our experience of living overseas and truly understanding how these days the world is just one big village, makes us more likely to vote remain? If the world's a big village, the U.K. risks becoming the village idiot by leaving. I'm really looking forward to cancelling out your leave vote, OP

Indeed, the whole concept of the Commonwealth is based on Britain's historic ties with certain countries

And those countries' ties with each other, perhaps?

Or maybe..... you're just worried that our experience of living overseas and truly understanding how these days the world is just one big village, makes us more likely to vote remain? If the world's a big village, the U.K. risks becoming the village idiot by leaving. I'm really looking forward to cancelling out your leave vote, OP

^ This ^

100% of the expats I know are shocked and horrified that the 'leave' brigade seems to be actually gaining traction due to uninformed, middle England falling for their spin and press coverage.

Yet expats are voting to leave, I am one of them.

Funny, because 100% of the expats I know are voting to leave.

Before reading this thread it had never occurred to me that British citizens living abroad would consider voting leave!