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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Owen Jones is childish

647 replies

sandrabedminster · 13/06/2016 08:54

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.Confused

OP posts:
supersoftcuddlytoys · 13/06/2016 18:20

Jones sees himself as a noble rebel, struggling against the apathy of the mainstream. Discussions he doesn't agree with bring out the worst in him.

sconebonjovi · 13/06/2016 18:29

I actually can't believe that anyone thinks OJ was in the wrong. They are his people! Lots of people seem to have a problem with subjugated minority groups laying claim to things that they think are rightfully theirs too. Bollocks to 'we're all humans'. If that's the case, why did everyone in the UK care so deeply about the attacks in France, whilst many don't even notice or acknowledge the horrors happening in countries that are predominantly populated by brown people. Hypocrites.

MangoMoon · 13/06/2016 18:44

Interesting how the same epithets are being used for him as gay man are used for women- emotional, sulky, stroppy unprofessional........

Well he was emotional, sulky, stroppy & unprofessional.
He was all of those things, regardless of his sexuality.

Had he been objective, engaged, even tempered & professional he would have been described as such.
But he wasn't.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 18:51

Scone I wish you hadn't lowered the tone like that.

And in case you haven't even seen the pictures, many of the poor people have been killed were actually brown.
People react to things for many different reasons.
Not everyone cares a great deal when old people are abused in nursing homes, or when people with LD are attacked.

We all have different things that move us to different degrees.

But OJ is not a member of the public, he is a professional figure who acted out a tantrum.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 18:52

I cant believe anyone would advocate people getting into a stop on life tv and storming off air.

thecatfromjapan · 13/06/2016 18:53

I've decided I rather like him for this. Why should he placidly sit through a rhetorical act of erasure, or 'objectively' (and what does that mean?) argue against such discursive/political strategies?

gingersam · 13/06/2016 18:56

Yabu times a million

Sniv · 13/06/2016 18:58

My heart went out to Owen.

Everything indicates that this was a killing that targeted LGBT people in an LGBT place because they were LGBT and therefore their deaths were justified.

I was at a gay night just last week. It's held in a basement bar with just one big staircase down - I assume there must be a fire exit but I've never noticed it and don't know where it is. It's a reasonable size, but because of the layout of the club, you can see pretty much the entire venue from the bottom of the stairs. If someone came down those stairs with the kind of weapon used in this attack, there'd be no escape and no where to hide. I can visualise just how it would happen. I can think of all the people who were there - old friends, acquaintances, my wonderful girlfriend - who would be dead if someone else wanted to do what this killer did. Peaceful people, loving people, hardworking funloving normal people, all dead.

There is still a deep pool of hatred for gay people. There will be people that heard that news and thought the killer was right, that the killing was justified, that the victims deserved it, that they brought it on themselves. We need to acknowledge that that hate for LGBT people is still there, and it's dangerous, it's killing people, and it needs to be fought.

I have a lot of respect for Owen, I agree with the point he was making and why he needed to make it and why he had to leave when it was downplayed, dismissed and denied.

thecatfromjapan · 13/06/2016 19:37

That's a very moving post, Sniv.

C4News coverage is a lot better.

Backingvocals · 13/06/2016 19:41

I've only just watched this and I didn't even understand the argument until I read scatterolight's comment:

"As far as I could discern from his strange behaviour his problem was that he wants Orlando to be viewed as a purely homophobic attack.

He was in a state of classic Leftist cognitive dissonance because he felt incredible grief and anger but at the same time could not bring himself to blame the problem of Islamist ideology. The reference to the Bataclan really tipped him over the edge as he his brain was going "this has nothing to do with Islam and therefore nothing to do with the Bataclan". He was much happier to accept the reference to the Admiral Duncan pub bombing"

Of course this was a horrific homophobic attack. But that homophobic idea, born out of madness, hate, whatever, found a happy home in the Islamist ideology of IS.

He made an idiot of himself with all his huffing and puffing and eye rolling.

Itsmine · 13/06/2016 19:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeJayKayven · 13/06/2016 19:45

But it wasn't "downplayed, dismissed and denied", that really should be challenged, - they were trying to discuss what the next days newspapers were saying, it wasn't just a forum for their own opinions.

Egosumquisum · 13/06/2016 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 19:52

Exactly. OJ gave a full account of his views about the homophobic nature of the attack. This was then widened out to include terror and gun control. But he didn't want those issues to be mentioned. Despite them being on the front pages of the newspapers he'd been invited to discuss.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 19:54

The news presenters both said it was a homophobic attack, and also other things. OJ didn't mention the other things on the telly, just in his written article.

NotYoda · 13/06/2016 19:54

*Ego8

Yes, and he does say that in the interview, doesn't he? I don't think some people watched very carefully.

NotYoda · 13/06/2016 19:54

Morris

YES HE DID!!

Backingvocals · 13/06/2016 19:55

But that's why his outburst didn't make any sense. It was clear this attack was a lot of different things at once. Horrific hate crime. Indictment of US gun laws. Example of Islamic extremism. I think all were agreed on that but he was huffing and puffing from the beginning. When he told JHB off for using particular phrases he lost it for me.

Egosumquisum · 13/06/2016 19:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 13/06/2016 20:02

The clip (just before he left the discussion) was just shown on C4News.

I have to say, it highlighted the subtle homophobia of SkyNews - all the worse because the two other participants are just utterly blind to it. It looked particularly bad when placed within the C4 News coverage.

There is a world of difference between a perspective on this massacre that places the LBGT experience at the centre and one that doesn't. It ulitmately leads to a 'straightwashing' of a massacre that has the LBGTQ community at the centre of the story, rather than being an 'add-on'.

BeJayKayven · 13/06/2016 20:03

egos thanks for the link - but honestly what a horrible man he is.
I just don't agree with him "Today, the "we only care about LGBT rights if Muslims are involved” brigade are out in force"

IMO, Just not true. And I still get the feeling he is downplaying the Islamic Extremism terrorism side of it and concentrating on homophobia - which is ironic as he is accusing others of downplaying homophobia and focussing on Islamic Extremist links. Why can't they be as bad as each other for him?

MangoMoon · 13/06/2016 20:06

Yes, and he does say that in the interview, doesn't he?

I think this is the crux of my objection to his attitude last night.
It wasn't an interview.
He was supposed to be discussing the next day's headlines and the points raised in them.

He was absolutely right to have his say, but then he should have moved on to do the job he was actually there to do - discuss the papers.

Ifiwasabadger · 13/06/2016 20:10

YABU. I'm totally with him.

thecatfromjapan · 13/06/2016 20:13

Actually, that Sky interview came pretty bloody close to needing a subtitle of: "We only care about the LGBTQ aspect of this if we can safely tuck them into a broader category of 'people' and 'western Ideals'.*" That's not just straightwashing (erasing the LGBTQ dimension), it's homophobic.

It really is disgusting.

Seriously. Compare the two approaches: C4: "We are all Queer"; Sky: "They weren't LGBTQ specifically, they were people."

Sorry, Sky, but it most indisputably was a LBGTQ club.

ForHarry · 13/06/2016 20:14

If it is true that he refused to appear on channel 4 news with Douglas Murray this evening, then that imo is childish.

Last night I felt sorry for him and thought he was right to leave if that's what he needed to do at that moment.

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