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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Owen Jones is childish

647 replies

sandrabedminster · 13/06/2016 08:54

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.Confused

OP posts:
AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 13:19

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/12/isiss/

Following the example of Muslims Caliph Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq (ruled 632-634), the Islamic court in Al-Furat province sentenced  a man who performed acts of the people of Lot [i.e.,homosexual acts] to be cast off the highest place in the town and then stoned to death. Allah’s command [is valid] in both the past and the future.’

If they deign to notice this, I expect the usual people to now say (a) That this has nothing to do with Islam/ is not Islamic/is more to do with Buddhism than Islam. And (b) That thirty years ago some Christian fundamentalist attacked an abortion clinic so it’s really not worth worrying about.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 13:21

In what ways are they not so different? I can't think of any material similarity between the treatment of LGBT people in the USA and those in the ME.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 13/06/2016 13:26

You can't think of any material similarity? Hmm

Well, one similarity - for 50 LGBT people in the US at the moment - is that they've been violently murdered.

Originalfoogirl · 13/06/2016 13:29

I haven't really any idea who Owen Jones is, but seeing what happened on the show, I was 100% behind him.

And seeing what has happened across the whole media since the shooting, he is absolutely right. Everyone wants to talk about ISIS (even though there is no confirmed link). Everybody wants to talk about gun control (as pointlessly happens after every one of these shootings). Everybody wants to talk about Muslims and Islam and religion (even though afaik he hasn't even been confirmed as a Muslim)

But nobody is talking about homophobia, about hate crimes, about what is clearly an attack on a group of people solely because of their sexuality.

The media in every single report have led with the fact this is a "gay nightclub" (presumably where people go to spend their gay money and drink gay drinks and do gay dancing. Why not describe it as a nightclub popular with the gay community - as they would in every other situation?). And yet not one media outlet has led with the scourge of homophobia in the US and how many attacks there are. We're heard how many terrorist attacks there have been, we've heard how many mass shootings there have been, but nobody has said "this was a homobic attack and the US needs to address how their laws and society encourages citizens to have such a deep seated hatred for the gay community"

Anyone who thinks the gay community are not at risk of attack from Christians (or anyone else of any religion or none) should take a look at world wide hate crime statistics.

Bolograph · 13/06/2016 13:32

As has been pointed out upthread, clearly antisemitic attacks in the past have been brushed off as "not really antisemitic at all"

Since Jones supported the IRA, his new objections to violence seem a little "blow up people at war memorials, fine, but leave the clubbers alone:"

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 13:33

It's illegal to attack or kill anybody gay or straight in the USA.

Terrorist attacks are illegal.

Gay nightclubs flourish, pay taxes and have the same police protection as any other club.

I can't see how this atrocity paints a similarity between a country where being gay is legal and one where being gay is illegal.

TheNewStatesman · 13/06/2016 13:34

"You can't think of any material similarity? hmm

Well, one similarity - for 50 LGBT people in the US at the moment - is that they've been violently murdered."

Oh for fuck's sake, Robin, stop MINIMIZING.

Can you imagine if we used the same kind of logic in other areas?

The fact that, say, there are cases of men who are beaten to a pulp by their wives does not change the fact that domestic violence and battery overwhelmingly affect women. There are points of similarity, but there are also MASSIVE differences in severity, frequency and scope.

MangoMoon · 13/06/2016 13:37

I also think he behaved like a spoiled brat in that clip.

He was there to discuss the papers and their reporting of the attack.
He gave his monologue at the beginning, fair enough, but then persisted in trying to shut the other two down.

He's like a toddler - shouting louder & louder then stamping his foot & storming off in a strop.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 13:37

France is a country which loathes and represses arts, sports and live music.

As evidenced in the Paris atrocity.

Bolograph · 13/06/2016 13:37

But nobody is talking about homophobia, about hate crimes, about what is clearly an attack on a group of people solely because of their sexuality.

The shooter's father is scum as well. No need to mourn his dead son or his dead son's victims when there's some gay-hating to get on with. Apples don't fall fare from trees, and all that.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/13/orlando-gunmans-father-condemns-atrocity-but-says-punishment-for-gay-people-is-up-to-god

Tossers like Jones threw gay people under the bus (cf. Respect): their bearded new friends were so "authentic" and "angry" that their desire to murder gay people was just a bit more to get excited about. You know what, Owen, they weren't talking metaphorically when they said they wanted to kill gay people, nor were they, like you at sixteen, just masturbating over pictures of bombings and writing interminable screeds. They actually wanted to kill gay people. And they are doing it. Perhaps you should have chosen your friends better.

The stoney fucking silence you can hear from the Labour Party is John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn figuring out how to condemn this without upsetting their friends in Hamas.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 13/06/2016 13:39

I really don't think I am minimizing.

It isn't the same as the example you give. I'm saying homophobia exists in the US as well as elsewhere. If I said that women in the UK are at risk of domestic violence, that wouldn't be 'minimizing' the fact that there are countries were it is legal for men to beat and rape their wives, would it? It would simply be an acknowledgment that the root prejudice - whether it's misogyny or homophobia - exists.

HopeArden · 13/06/2016 13:39

It worries me when people like OJ say that we don't understand because we are not lgbt. Of course we do. I don't have to be gay to feel horror and sadness at what happened and to put myself mentally in their position. I think that commemt does 'other' people and that is not what society needs. The ability to empathise and is what separates us from terrorists.
No one can ever truly know exactly what another person feels, even with common shared experiences because we are all unique. OJ cannot claim to speak for those victims any more than I can - he didn't know them personally any more than I did. So the best he can do is empathise, like everyone else. We are all potential victims of terrorism.

howtorebuild · 13/06/2016 13:42

He gave his monologue at the beginning, fair enough...

He wanted to continue and the childish behaviour came in when the others wanted to expand the paper review. Did he think he was being booked to talk exclusively, rather than provide a review of the papers?

derxa · 13/06/2016 13:49

I had never heard of him before... well vaguely. He was quite right. It was an attack on the LGBT community.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 13:55

Interesting post Bolograph.

MangoMoon · 13/06/2016 13:55

Perhaps it is a homophobic to describe a gay man as 'childish' because he feels pain when other gay people are slaughtered.

He was childish because he behaved in exactly the same way as a child does when they're having a strop.
I would have used 'childish' to describe that reaction & behaviour regardless of a person's age, sex or sexuality.
Huge leap required to link that to homophobia.

Perhaps professionalism is also about interviewers showing respect to interviewees, giving them space to express their viewpoint

Except he wasn't there to be interviewed.
He was there to review the papers' headlines.
A task he refused point blank to do.

corythatwas · 13/06/2016 13:57

Just managed to lose a long post on the lines of Robins' but using racism as an example instead. I just read that one of the actors in The Bridge has stated that he is uncomfortable filming in Malmö because of growing anti-Semitism. Of course he is not talking Nazi Germany: assaulting people because of their race is illegal in Sweden. But that does not mean that his experience is not real and what is going on is not a milder version of what was going on in Europe in the 30s.

Not only many Muslims, but many evangelical Christians are convinced that gay people are doomed to perdition. There is possibly some support for it in the Bible. I have friends here in the UK who believe that. Though fortunately they do not feel called upon to hasten on the perdition.

Lots more people still think of gays as somehow inferior or fair game. I should think it would be very difficult to grow up in any western country (let alone an eastern one) and never encounter prejudice or harassment.

It seems quite clear from the news coverage that the killer, a man with a known hatred of LTGB people went to a lot of trouble to deliberately select this gay venue. If he had gone to as much trouble, travelling far from his home, to find a synagogue, I can't imagine it being reported without reference to the religious aspect or a rabbi who was trying to point this out not being heard.

At the same time, it seems odd to call it terrorism unless he can be linked to any organisation. A lone white killer who conducts a mass slaughter because of his Christian views would probably not be called a terrorist, despite the fact that there are plenty of Christians who share his views.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 13:58

And..he had plenty of space to express his views, but it seemed he only wanted to talk about it in his narrow terms which is totally exclude Islamic fundamentalism. Which is fine, those are his views, but then he didnt want the other two to speak and his angry stance ramped the whole thing up a notch.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 14:01

For the poster who said we are jumping to conclusions over his links to ISIS.

The FBI named Orlando gay club shooter Omar Mateen, 29, a person of interest in 2013 and again in 2014
Investigation was first opened in 2013 when he made 'inflammatory remarks' to colleagues alleging possible terrorist ties
FBI interviewed witnesses, looked at physical surveillance and records checks and also interviewed him twice, but closed investigation
Second investigation was opened to see if he had ties to American suicide bomber Moner Abu Salha, but no links were found and case was closed
Sources say Mateen also used website Timbuktu Seminary, run by radical Islamic cleric Marcus Dwayne Robertson, also known as Abu Taubah
He purchased weapons used in the shooting, which killed 50 people, legally within the last week
FBI says Mateen may have 'leanings to radical Islamic terrorism' and it is being investigated as 'an act of terrorism'
Mateen's father claims the attack has 'nothing to do with religion'
He said his son became angry after seeing two men kiss in public

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637797/Orlando-gay-club-shooter-Omar-Mateen-investigated-TWICE-FBI.html#ixzz4BSpdPCBI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

albertcampionscat · 13/06/2016 14:01

Oh ffs. He had a perfectly reasonable response to the daft refusal to see this as an attack on LGBT people.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 14:01

Not only many Muslims, but many evangelical Christians are convinced that gay people are doomed to perdition

Would love to see some numbers on that.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 13/06/2016 14:03

But albert many posters didn't see any such refusal, but they saw a refusal from him to actually include other elements in the discussion including the similar attack at the Bataclan.

Egosumquisum · 13/06/2016 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MorrisZapp · 13/06/2016 14:05

Have watched the entire clip now. Thought he behaved like a childish arse.

Taking offence because Barack Obama wants to discuss gun control in the wake of the worst mass shooting in US history, fuck me.

Surferjet · 13/06/2016 14:09

Agree. It really was all about him wasn't it.
Doubt he'll be on many news channels anytime soon.