I don't tell people I was abused not because I am ashamed but because of how they react!!

[SituatedDifferently]

There is a lot in the media about the shame rape and abuse victims can be made to feel. I totally get this and understand this argument. I however was very fortunate, I was seriously abuse for three years by a family member, as soon as my parents found out they did everything in their power to get him sent away for a very long time and to rebuild/ nurture me. It was a bad thing in my childhood but it wasn't how I define my childhood and they gave me the strength to deal with and go on a live a very happy life.
I used to openly talk to people about it, I gave presentations at schools, spoke at youth clubs etc, about why people should not stay silent. As I have progressed through life I have increasingly become aware that people can't seem to deal with these things if I tell them without defining me by it - a former boyfriends parents advised he split up with me as I was going to have mental health problems, my mother-in-law said when I told her (only very recently) 'well I'd never of known because you're such a good mum' as if somehow assuming I wouldn't be and former employer got me booked into counselling for no other reason other than I told him what I was giving a talk on. Therefore what I mean is, in my experience (which is likely to be different from other peoples I know) I am suddenly handled with kid gloves or treated differently - pitied I suppose. I'm not suggesting that empathy and shock aren't natural reactions but in my experience people treat me like I am damaged and fragile in some way and it has changed relationships after I have told people. I've now stopped telling people not because I ashamed or can't deal with it but they can't. I'm not really sure what I am expecting or hoping from this post but just reading all this stuff about how victims are still made to feel responsible/ashamed and people kicking off about it (quite rightly so!), I just wanted to share my experience. I've never felt ashamed, it's not come from me, but people in my experience seem to apply it to me or maybe expect me too? I'm probably not making an awful lot of sense but in truth after this happened as a teenager and into my early twenties I wanted to open up conversations about abuse, hence doing the talks, and now I don't as even sympathetic people seem to tarnish me... I am not damaged, I am not different. I had a horrid experience but through honesty and open conversations, with love and support I got through and it made me stronger - that was the message I wanted people to hear, that we need not be silent about these things and opening up makes us stronger - what I learnt was whether through sympathy or judgement it changes the way people treat you and deal with you.

YANBU. I get this, but mine regards domestic abuse rather than an abusive childhood. It is really quite scary how society views the victims of domestic abuse, victim blaming is alive and well and people judge and feel uncomfortable about it. One of the reasons I kept quite for so long. Out of it now, thank fuck.

Can I just ask - genuinely - why is it selfish of your MIL not to want to talk about it?

I grew up in a toxic family with an emotionally abusive mother from a very early age, where my brother was the golden child, and lasted even until now and beyond, so 30+ years.

I was sexually assaulted at 13/14, I felt incredible guilt and shame and told nobody. Growing up there were many jokes, even into adulthood, how guys could not be raped or sexually assaulted/abused "because we don't have a pussy". This outlook and expression ensured my shame grew and caused depression.

I have only recently told two people about what happened - my DW, and a very good online friend. I have counselling starting today to deal with everything relating to my childhood, but am afraid to discuss this sexual component. I still feel the guilt and shame keenly.

Because, although my childhood hasn't damaged me, it is part of who I am. If I can't talk about it, it's like having to silence a big and important part of my life.

So to deny someone that, because you don't like the subject matter is selfish. My MIL talks endlessly about her happy childhood. Great. It's important to link with the child you once were. But are people who've had sad childhoods or periods in their life just supposed to pretend it never happened? Keep it all internal?

Hearing about lovely childhoods can be hard for me. It can make me feel awkward. I feel sad for what I didn't have. But do I expect people not to talk about them just to spare my feelings. No. Because that would be selfish.

Besides I like people's stories - good and bad. I like to consider the WHOLE person.

SeriousSteve it's not your fault. You have nothing to feel guilty or shameful about. You were a child, hurt so badly. I'm glad you've been able to speak out, it's a very long road but I hope you find some peace.

stugtank I think you've put that very well.
My IL's are aware of my toxic childhood and I know DH has told them more details (although I told him not to) but they either ignore the fact or scoot round it. I don't want to constantly talk about it by any mean, it just makes feel like they don't acknowledge the real me, just the person they want me to be.

I completely get this, OP. I was sexually abused by a school-friend when I was an older teenager, and even at the time I 'knew' never to mention the abuse - because I knew from everybody's views on the situation in which it occurred and the reputation I acquired that the boy concerned bestowed on me as a method of detracting attention away from his wrongdoing that I wouldn't be believed (in fact, I struggled with the knowledge that it was even abuse myself in those days).

My parents colluded with this, and so I never told them (they were also quite insistent that I didn't go ahead with pressing charges when I was raped outside a nightclub by a different person when I was seventeen). If there is ever any suggestion that I might be about to 'open up' about anything, I am soon put in my place. (I am 40 years old FFS.)

My partner doesn't know, though I suspect he knows that something 'happened'. If I ever hint at anything, he soon changes the subject.

I would love to go to Rape Crisis and the police about what happened to me, but without the right immediate support, I don't know how to. IMO most people's reactions are all part of the 'rape culture' we belong to. It's like as a society we just don't know how to deal with it. Reading an book about it at he mo called something like 'Asking For It' by Kate Harding. It makes for interesting reading.

Aristotle would you consider going to the gp first and ask for counselling? Support can come in various forms and sometimes just being able to say the full story without any judgement or further questioning can be very helpful and validating.

I probably should get counselling for it, you're right, RebelRogue. Funnily enough, it was whilst doing a counselling course recently that it all came up. I just wish I could have counselling in secret, but not possible with having to sort childcare etc, and it would probably have to involve my parents, which I don't really want to do. One of these days I'll pluck up the courage to tell my partner about it all properly and hope he actually listens.

Aristotle it all depends how you want to go about it. There are ways to keep it a secret but i don't believe that's healthy,just adding more secrets and like you have more things to be ashamed of. I know you can also get therapy by phone,but i'm not sure if that is available on the NHS or you'd have to pay for it but maybe worth to ask your gp?
Good luck when/if you do decide to tell your partner x

Thanks RebelRogue!

I was badly neglected/emotionally abused by my stepmother. Looking back she was badly mentally ill when she married my dad - all the signs were there. For this reason, I try not to blame her. Try. Some days are better than others.

OP I came to the same conclusion as you. I never talk about it. My kids had no idea the person they called 'Grandma' in early childhood, was an evil, cruel person. (I never left them alone with her, and had to see her if I wanted to see my dad). My brother's kids were very bitter - brought up to know the whole thing. I think it poisons people to know, and it's irreversible.

As they got older they found out because my brother and niece would press me for details or other people would start talking about it over my head, to try to get me to talk. I think there is a gleam in their eye that I hate, when they talk about it. I was at the centre of it, yet don't get off on it so I don't see why anyone should. (Also a reason I loathe the genre of Misery Lit - what kind of ghouls would read that shit?)

People never see you the same once they see you as a victim. I refuse to be anyone's victim, least of all her's. People telling you you're a 'survivor' and a wonderful person is crap, too. What was I meant to do? Not survive? Is someone automatically conferred sainthood because they were the unwitting, innocent brunt of some adult's weirdness? Fuck, no. I never asked to be in that situation and I will never ask anyone to feel sorry for me. It's that weird look they get in their eye though, and that longing to hear the gory details that I think separates abusers from the ghouls who want to hear about it, by only a very fine line.

I think, though, there is a difference between emotional voyeurism and just listening and not allowing your own discomfort prevent you from getting to know someone as a whole person.

If someone wants to talk about abuse, they should be allowed. Silence, secrets, denial etc are not healthy. It's why abuse is allowed to continue actually. People like to bury their head in the sand, brush it under the carpet because it doesn't conform to their safe world view. But abusers use this to shame their abuse victims into silence.

stug, we're all different and anyone who would feel better talking, can talk. I actually dislike the look that comes over people if I do talk about this. I am not advocating 'silence' just saying I think we live in a 'spill your guts' culture, and whilst that is helpful for many - for others it is not. I can only give an answer from the perspective of someone who was neglected and abused as a child/teenager. And that's how I see it.

Have rarely thought about it TBH but if I have to locate precisely what it is that makes me feel I don't need to talk about this, with anyone, IRL, it's the thought of that look in their eye, if you do. I still know people who knew me at the time or right after that time and they are people who, if I felt like emoting, I'd emote to.

That's not sweeping it under the carpet or protecting abusers just me sharing the reality of how I feel about this issue I have some experience of. It might not conform to what people want to hear (That 'talkjing about it is healthy') but as I say, I'm sensitive to the fact we are all different and for me, I feel no release in talking and I feel people get a certain frisson from it, which they have no right to. A lot can be hidden under that 'shoulder to cry on' schtick.

I am not burying my head under the sand though - it's odd that you think anyone could. I'm perfectly well aware of the facts of my childhood and I dislike the way people look when you start to discuss it. And I hate all the nonsense about "You're so brave!" etc - as it's crass and insensitive. There is nothing 'brave' about enduring something because you have to endure. It happened to me - it might just as well have happened to the kid sitting at the next desk in any classroom I was in, in the 1970s. No one of us would be brave for living through it, or talking about it. People do get off on you talking about it. The only people I'd ever discuss it with as those directly affected (like my stepsisters, who I'm very fond of - they never asked for a nuts mother), my brother, and one or two old friends from the time. Also my husband who knew me about a week after I left.

There's a family event at the weekend, and I'm dreading the discussion turning to this, because it's giving people the story they crave and there is no point in telling it.

Joffrey the way i see it not wanting to talk,or being selective about whom u talk to is completely different to being unable to talk when you want to because no one will listen or can't cope with it or whatever.

I'd take that as read, though. ;o)

My MIL, whenever I bring it up, just doesn't want to go there. She'll change the subject usually. I find it deeply hurtful. It's selfish actually. It's because SHE can't handle it, not me

You have no idea of the reasons she might find it difficult to handle...it could be anything.

IMHO, you are the one who's being selfish by keeping on bringing it up with someone you already know doesn't want to discuss it.

Joffrey, I wasn't suggesting that you were burying your abuse under the carpet. Rather that society on a whole does so, when it disallows someone who does want to talk the space and opportunities to do so.

Grease I find your attitude at best strange, at worst it's very harsh. What if a child wanted to disclose or talk about their abuse? Would you consider them selfish in doing so to an adult who would rather not go there? If a loved one of yours was ill or in distress would you consider them selfish for trying to lean on you or share their troubles?

If the whole world thought like this it would be a very shallow and insular place indeed.

But stug I don't think society does disallow people from being open, now..? It definitely did in the past - and especially during the 70s, I think. But now, people are positively encouraged to emote all over the place.

That said, I think victims and whistleblowers are still sometimes stonewalled by authorities (the SS, the police) to protect abusers - and I don't understand why, if a reasonable other adult raises concerns, they are not at least looked into. (Avoiding paperwork? Understaffed?) As this has been our recent, desperate experience trying to flag up concerns about a family who moved next door, who are very clearly harming their kids (obviously slightly triggering for me - as I also had the experience of a kind adult getting the SS involved, only to have them totally fooled by my stepmother).

Despite recent experience, I think societal values have changed so much that it is taken for granted we all want to 'talk it over' (some of us don't). Maybe once the abuse is firmly in the past and so would cost no-one any admin or effort to investigate. Or am I a cynic? Generally, society has a "spill your guts" attitude - but in terms of how those antiquated authorities who are left to deal with this at the sharp end - they still haven't caught up with the zeitgeist. In other words: it's complex.

But this thread has been invaluable to me as it has made me realise the precise reason I never talk unless totally cornered - because of the way people look when you do. (We also have seen the rise of the Misery Lit genre, and a culture where people salivate over victims and victimhood).

In the case of the MIL who doesn't want to engage - I'd agree with Grease that she could have very good reason - maybe her own personal experiences, and her own way of handling them? It's not for anyone to second guess or intrude.

We are also all products of our own backgrounds and generation. Some older people still believe in the culture of secrecy; some younger people believe passionately in the psycho-babble 'let it all out' culture. And there's every shade of opinion inbetween. There are no 'either/ors' in real life.

Joffrey I have to say i have never met someone that salivates over victims/victimhood.

And it's not about everyone should talk it over. It's about that those want,should be able to do so without shame,judgement or fear that they will suddenly be seen as future abusers themselves,broken,damaged,unable to function or cope with life.

Completely agree with you OP.
Part of the problem seems to be a study that showed a high percentage of abusers were themselves abused as children.
People have twisted this round in their minds to create the belief that being abused turns you into an abuser.

Whereas the reality is. that study took place in a prison. It did not include all the people who were abused and went on to lead normal, non abusing lives.

Rebel, I must be unlucky then. Although possibly not.

Those books have millions of readers.

I agree it's never black and white. I also respect and acknowledge that not everyone wants to talk about it.

But it's a fact that talking does help a lot of people. It's also a fact that a culture of silence and shame does further damage.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'psycho-babble' - it sounds dismissive of a very legitimate response by some who were abused i.e to want their truth acknowledged by sharing their experiences.

Also a 'let it all out' response helps other victims come forward. Look how many of Jimmy Saville's victims came forward once the first people started telling the truth.

I'm not denying that talking helps many people and I'd never be an advocate of a culture of silence. My point was that it is - like most things - more complex than it might at first appear, and just as no-one should be silenced - equally - no-one should feel pressurised to talk at all, if they choose not to.

Because like it or not - my fundamental point - there is a fine line between the abuser and those people who want to hear the details of abuse. And this is something we have yet to acknowledge.

Plus, there is a societal shift towards 'Misery Lit' that I feel is as unhealthy as the culture that protected Savile, etc. Although as a Leeds girl originally, I have to probably blast that myth as well as I didn't know anyone in Leeds who hadn't 'heard the stories' about Savile. It was the BBC, outsiders, and clearly the NHS establishment (and police) who seem to have been the only ones not to know what was going on, there. There was no silence.

I've seen other Leeds folk mention this on other forums, too. So that is not just my perception. He was seen as sinister and a joke by anyone I knew, for years. We never got why 'down South' loved him so much. Truly. Not quite a culture of silence as people must have been speaking out for us to all know about him. More like authority stonewalling those who did speak out.

That's not something people are ready to hear, yet, I think.