To think stopping the pension triple lock and bus passes would reduce inequality

[feellikeahugefailure]

Yes it would be great to give everyone free bus travel and put up their money each year. But the country is already in a financial black hole.

Most other benefits have been frozen for years but pensioners protected. Also the bus pass is given universally and not means tested, where as the bus pass for the unemployed was axed years ago.

There are many people like my wealthy ex in-laws who used the bus pass to avoid paying parking and getting the BMW scratched. The state pension they always called peanuts - as it was compared to their final salary pension. These changes would not affect their lifestyle one bit.

Ideally I'd like unemployed people and poor pensioners to get some help with bus travel (as it can be super expensive) and increases each year in money to allow people at the bottom to live their life with dignity, regardless of age.

jobhap.com/bus-passes-and-state-pensions-triple-lock-threat-on-brexit/

I have no objection to universal benefits. But it has to be level. If everyone can have a bus pass when they hit pension age, then everyone should be able to claim child benefit when they have a child of qualifying age.

The issue I have is that successive governments are demonising one section of society and putting others on a pedestal.

A pensioner is no more entitled to a decent standard of living than any other individual in the country. They're equally entitled, except that the government doesn't seem to see it that way.

I also disagree with the whole "I've paid my stamp, I deserve my pay out" mentality. You paid tax to fund the state at that time, not to save for later. The current working population fund the state now.

I'd like to say if I appear grumpy it is because there really hasn't been enough coffee yet today!:o

It's not true that the elderly haven't suffered due to the recession. Interest rates on savings are now less than 1%, the flipside to mortgage rates being so low. I remember paying 15% at one point and really struggling.

Getting older is expensive. Increasingly, you can't do your own DIY, gardening, cleaning and have to pay others to do it for you. Many retired people rely on the interest from their savings for repairing the roof, painting the house, getting a new boiler.

We're lucky to get free prescriptions, given than many of us are on long-term medication, but pay full-price for dentistry and glasses, at a time when we need it more than the younger generation.

I don't qualify for pension credit, because of my savings, but my freedom pass probably saved me £1,000 p.a. when I was still caring for my late DM. Most of my friends are subsidising their families, helping with childcare or paying for activities. Restricting free travel to those on PC would have a knock-on effect to all age groups.

V depressing to read these mean-spirited posts.

They don't get a golden pass because they've manage to not die.

That's exactly what pensioners should get, if you want to be so crass about phrasing it.

They've lived through decades of good fortune or struggle or both.

A decent society gives the older generation a bit of respite from means testing and penny counting in their later years. So what if a few wealthy get minor benefit too? They'll be paying tax.

I have a state pension and a small NHS pension. However, I'm still working as I still have a mortgage and wouldn't be able to live on just my pension income. I have worked solidly for 45 years without any breaks whatsoever, have never claimed any sort of benefit and am paying a huge amount of tax, a substantial proportion at 40%. I have contributed to others benefits for all of my adult life while taking nothing, including your child support and your children's education. I have done this without moaning or resenting it. I do resent it however when I'm now accused of freeloading. And for what it's worth, I have a bus pass but it has never been used.

I expect to get flamed for this, but here goes.....

I have worked since I was 18. I don't own a car, eat out four or five times a year, had tears without holidays and now go self-catering in France. I can't remember the last time I went to the pub, and haven't bought a bottle of spirits in a year or more, and have never smoked. My working day, including commute, is eleven hours per day, five days per week. My travel costs to get to work are about 5% of my gross pay, I pay income tax, National Insurance (12%) and a work pension (9.5%).

So I shouldn't receive a state pension when I've worked for 48 years because people who've owned a car since they were 17, taken a year to travel to Thailand, Australia, Nicaragua or wherever, attend week-long stags in Budapest, have long weekends in New York, own phones that cost ten times what mine did, have to have the latest PS, and spend a small fortune on Starbucks, eating out and booze can't afford to pay my pension!

The number of people claiming a pension is growing. People live longer. There isn't enough money to go around. They money needs to be divided equally. If that means that everyone gets slightly less, that's fair. Unfair is ringfencing pensions at the expense of everyone else.

This again?
Dont encourage people to start fighting each other like this and call it 'fairness', its not.
Its the same tedious stress fuelled blame game. Its not a solution, its part of the problem.

1. It would cost more to implement than it would save.
2. They pay tax on the pension so it comes back that way.
3. The bus pass keeps drivers off the road.

Gordon Bennett, when will this ever end?!

First of all we pick on the 'feckless' unemployed; now they are working on zero hours contracts, we pick on them for claiming HB and Tax credits, when the wages are butt achingly crap and the rents are sky high...

Oh, we also pick on the renters, because they effin' can't afford a mortgage and are the scourge of society, living in insecure properties that are the new gold, rather than being a basic human requirement.

Now that's become 'uncool', we pick on the grannies, most of whom have worked and paid their stamp - and had their retirement age put forward a few times!

Let's stop pointing our fingers at the soft targets and consider the larger picture.

By the way, there IS enough money to go around; some people have far, far too much.

'A pensioner is no more entitled to a decent standard of living than any other individual in the country. They're equally entitled, except that the government doesn't seem to see it that way.'

I don't see it that way either.

Because a young person with their life ahead of them has far greater opportunity to influence their standard of living than an elderly one whose skills acquired decades ago are no longer relevant/required.

The raising of the pension age by a few years caused an outcry from those younger people at the prospect of working for longer. But the only way to 'equalise' the ages woukd be to remove pensions totally and instead have the same work/out of work benefits for everyone.

I do not equate pensions with benefits or salaries, even when all are paid from the state.

Good grief. Divide and conquer still works, doesn't it?
The 'triple lock' is an electoral bribe to keep the core Tory vote on side. That's it.
Nothing to do with means testing. Other benefits can be means tested and claimants made to jump through hoops.
Fighting about the relative merits of groups is horrible.

Here we go, pensioner bashing again. How many people on these boards get family tax credit and/or working tax credit, with many taking out more than they are putting in. Yet they focus on a group of people who did not have these benefits, or equal pay, free childcare, extended education and the rest of it. Clearly there are some and I say some, pensioners who are well off but there is a hell of a lot who aren't.

The thing that really botgers me is that state and private pensions are effectively pyramid selling.

Well we all know what happens with pyramid schemes in the end! The fear to ever raise the pension age in line with life expectancy is a big reason why we have such a big issue now.

I know people that claim to have "worked hard their whole life and paid stamp" but will soon be retired for more years than they worked.

Unfair is ringfencing pensions at the expense of everyone else.

Like!

Love all these posts about telling someone on JSA can just increase their earnings

"Love all these posts about telling someone on JSA can just increase their earnings".

Here's an idea: let people retire at 60/65 so that they free up jobs for young people!

'I know people that claim to have "worked hard their whole life and paid stamp" but will soon be retired for more years than they worked'

If they retired in the years when Labour reduced the qualifying number of years to 30, they can't have been retired long enough to fit this. So qualifying at 35 years and postulating a start to working life at 15, this means people over the age of 85.

I agree that more people live that long than was ever envisaged when it was first set up. But what with the obesity crisis and the dark warnings of a generation of children who will not live as long as their parents, it's all
likely to change again, isn't it?

Divide and Rule.
If you're daft enough to fall for it, its your problem.

The pensioners going on about low interest on savings should tell that to the rest of us who have no savings ( or private pensions at all). That is a nice problem to have. Also we should merge tax and NI and remove this fiction of pension fund contributions and contributory benefits and just move to a payment in case of need instead.

Yesterday I received by post a statement sent at my request from HMRC to set out how many years I have paid NI. They said 35 so far (and still counting with another 13 to go - no gaps as I did not take maternity leaves). It is worth getting this by the way to check HMRC have the correct record for you as they changed computer systems in about 2004 and some people's records went wrong and years were lost.

As for older people not being able to do stuff about the house plenty of us can and do and will. Perhaps keep fitter by doing yoga, daily walks and eating well and that phase where you can no longer mow your own grass will not come too soon.

Low interest on savings means lower returns for pension funds, which means lower annuity rates. Because of the influence of compunction interest on these funds, the impact is greater on those whose funds missed the interest rate growth in the early/middle years.

The impact is detrimental, on an individual level, for those in retirement since the 00s, but could be having an effect across a whole generation who have yet to retire, who find their pension pot may not buy the size of annuity they hoped for.

The way it is done, is the cheapest, admin wise.

We will have to re-instate PIP (the old DLA) and Carers allowance for every age, if the Universal pittance is taken away.

We will also have to provide a lot more Community Services.

Giving people Universal benefits and/or other benefits, especially disability benefits, is cheaper than providing Services, or Mental Health provision etc.

I agree about waking up to the 'divide and rule' and the hatred/resentment of each other, that we are being taught.

My Mum worked as a lolly pop lady, on retirement. When I did Homecare, the packages weren't enough and it was always retired (or non working) older female neighbours, that filled the gap.

Likewise, it's older people who are now propping up their children, by providing childcare etc.

MN isn't reflective of the majority of people, nationwide. There's many people who are low earners, renters, the whole of their lives, who all pitch in to keep the whole family going and are doing their best. These are the people that will be targeted in the cuts.

Aging and living in poverty, isn't the same, as it is, for someone young and healthy.

There's vast differences, physically and mentally.

Before any changes are bought in too Welfare/Public spending, then what we do spend money on, should be clearly set out.

I doubt that any of us would even consider this to be a valid spending cut.

Unfair is ringfencing pensions at the expense of everyone else

Well let's hope they get round to reducing them in about 2045 when you lot retire - I'm sure you'll be applauding loudly!

Honestly this thread is nasty. I am glad that my father gets a free bus pass even though he has a generous pension. He is half blind and blardly liablity on the road. Trust me, getting him and similar pensioners off the road has saved thousands. Similarly money for heating encourages pensioners to turn their heating on. I would like the money for heating to be in a form of a voucher so that pensioners are forced to spend it on heating rather than squirrelling it away.

Rather than getting rid of the triple lock, free bus passes and TV, I feel it would be better to look at the income tax bands for really wealthy pensioners. Pensioners pay less tax because they don't pay national insurance.

You can get a free bus pass if you're not allowed to drive for medical reasons too. At least, when my driving license was suspended for medical reasons, I got one.

I thought the point was to help people off the roads at a point where they shouldn't be driving.

Well let's hope they get round to reducing them in about 2045 when you lot retire - I'm sure you'll be applauding loudly!

There probably won't be a state pension when (and if) my generation retires. When the baby boomer bloc vote doesn't need something anymore it goes. Like free university education, the grant, affordable housing, jobs for life, final salary schemes etc, etc.

Funny how they didn't manage to get themselves quite as worked up about the loss of those.

80% of the nations wealth is held by today's pensioners. I really don't think they're the ones that need bus passes.

There probably won't be a state pension when (and if) my generation retires. When the baby boomer bloc vote doesn't need something anymore it goes. Like free university education, the grant, affordable housing, jobs for life, final salary schemes etc, etc.

Well, they've already changed the terms of the occupational pension scheme I've been paying into for the last 20 years, less favourable terms of course. I don't hold high hopes for my state pension. Don't worry - we know already we're getting shafted in retirement. Its the millenials and GenY kids I feel most sorry for, squeezed every which way.

I cannot drive for medical reasons, I'm too disabled. I dont get anything.

People decided they wanted benefits cuts and here we are.