To think stopping the pension triple lock and bus passes would reduce inequality

[feellikeahugefailure]

Yes it would be great to give everyone free bus travel and put up their money each year. But the country is already in a financial black hole.

Most other benefits have been frozen for years but pensioners protected. Also the bus pass is given universally and not means tested, where as the bus pass for the unemployed was axed years ago.

There are many people like my wealthy ex in-laws who used the bus pass to avoid paying parking and getting the BMW scratched. The state pension they always called peanuts - as it was compared to their final salary pension. These changes would not affect their lifestyle one bit.

Ideally I'd like unemployed people and poor pensioners to get some help with bus travel (as it can be super expensive) and increases each year in money to allow people at the bottom to live their life with dignity, regardless of age.

jobhap.com/bus-passes-and-state-pensions-triple-lock-threat-on-brexit/

Why would you 'try to help' 2 DCs buy in London? Are they the same 2 who you say you will have to help with those Uni fees that ou don't have to pay up front, that they pay that as a form af tax, if/when they earn enough... they should be abl to get some form of maintenance grant if you have little money coming in.

You dad's savings were never yours...

Life has always been hard for sectors of society...

Stripping pensioners of those free passes won't make all your money woes disappear...

Do you vote? I hope so... and why would anyone vote to damage their grandchildren... why will leaving the EU do that?

NoteIf you know a real answer that please let us know... no political party has managed to explain either side of that arguement clearly. You could be hailed an absolute genius

But mainly... you really do need to think about where you got the information about those dastardly pensioners.

and why would anyone vote to damage their grandchildren...

You should meet my grandmother. There are topics we don't discuss. For a reason.

She has already told my Uncle and Mother not expect any inheritance as she's leaving it all to charity after my uncle made an innocent passing remark about liking some glassware of hers and she interpreted this as eyeing up her property for when she dies. To put this into context he's a Quaker, and only bought a tv for the first time in 30 years after retiring last year and has spent his life living frugally as a lifestyle choice. It says rather more about her than him.

She firmly has blinkers on to the world around her and can be very selfish in nature. I have more examples than I care to mention unfortunately.

This is a woman who has managed to get 'sacked' by her care company for her unreasonable demands and behaviour. Her complaints have ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous. My mum who has spent years, driving the length of the country to sort out her mess and has fought her case in hospital when she has had some shocking care, thinks its more than fair under the circumstances and based on the nature of the complaints. (And she'll be the one paying for the more expensive care out of her own pension as a result). Her carers were fabulous often doing extra things for her off their own backs on their days off.

For this reason my parents and DH and I have talked at length about our connected futures, financial and otherwise, as we view them as linked not separate. If we are not set up, we might be less able to support their needs in time.

If my mum lives as love as her mother then, there is a realistic possibility we will be supporter her as pensioners ourselves. Potentially with little or no pension ourselves.

I really don't believe that all people have the best interests of their family members at heart. It works in reverse too. (Why would you clear out your own mother's bank account for example - but it happens).

If you've never come across someone who has no problem in stiffing their own family, then you have lived a long and charmed life.

red - with respect that is anecdotal evidence not facts - not all your grandmother's generation are like that. Most of us care very deeply and try and help to the best of our ability our children and grandchildren - as I am sure you would help your own children.

Of course its not a fact that an entire generation are like that. I have others in my family who accepted extended family members as their old children and grandchildren.

My point was actually that people - of all ages - don't always mind stiffing the rest of their family.

There will be plenty of people voting for themselves rather than their family in all age groups.

Why am I to assume that older generations are somehow more altruistic in nature? What evidence do you have to back that up either?

Its a stupid thing to try and pick me up on. I just feel like there is a massive chip on the shoulder going on here, just because I point out that it is human nature that there are frankly selfish bastards who don't listen, in all generations.

Some families will help each other, some won't. I won't assume that everyone has my best intentions at heart. I frankly find that attitude somewhat patronising to be honest.

just feel like there is a massive chip on the shoulder going on here Yes there is. The problem is that anyone who disagrees that all older people are overly monied gobshites gets told they are being unreasonable, have a chip on their shoulder etc.

The reality is that the firmly embedded MN mantra is that 'older generations have too much of our money'.

Some of us disgaree that this is a universal truth. Remember, I am not a boomer, nor a pensioner!

If we say as much we get posts that ask us to explain a piece of minutia... throw out a personal experience as some sort of proof.

Tp be honest, your own posts are as insulting and patronising as the ones you object to.

Why? Well, because ther are usually 2 or more sides to any argument... the posts you dislike disargee with you! That's it! Nothing more invidious than that.

I like your approach ourblanche. My dm and dhs parents are very generous. Dhs parents not well off. Strangely enough they haven't claimed their free bus passes.

I don't blame anybody for the predicament we're in apart from every government since 1979. They've all used neoliberal policies to keep us hoi-polloi in our place, but even worse is that they use the fact that some of us are better off than others to divide us. All of need to unite to get the system changed so that it benefits the majority.

Oh, and those who whine that we can't afford it I call bullshit. We have a fiat currency, like the rest of the world. It appears we have plenty of money available to wage war and bail out bankrupt banks, but none to bail out poor people. We can make as much of this fake money as we like, fuck knows every other central bank is! The problem is they're all doing it to keep the banks alive. Let them die, they're mostly corrupt anyway.

Why do so many people hate old people so much?

Because seeing them reminds people that they will get old, frail and then they will die.

I've said this before on posts like these.

I think that pensioners should have to surrender their driving licences to get a free bus pass. Those that truly need them won't miss out and those that don't will be unlikely to sacrifice their cars for a bus pass.

Most people do not believe leaving the E.U will have any effect on our state pensions, and they are right. Maybe a few gullible people, but the vast majority can see straight through Camerons tactics. They are losing, and they know it! Don't be one of the dummies....Vote brexit!

I think that pensioners should have to surrender their driving licences to get a free bus pass

Hopefully DCs will never have an emergency that requires pensioner grandparents to pick up grandchildren, take to hospital, lend car to DC while theirs is in for repair, etc. But I guess pensioner grandparents will just have to fork out for a taxi when that happens.

I have worked and paid national insurance for my old aged pension all my working life. I also pay tax at 40% and work 60 hour weeks.
In addition I have paid a lot of money for an occupational pension all my working life.

Why should I not have both of them?

I think that pensioners should have to surrender their driving licences to get a free bus pass

I don't drive, what freedom do I have to give up to get one? and how are you going to administer that without an uproar about encroachment on personal freedoms and without it costing far more than it saves?

Pensioners have also worked and paid into the system. Rebuilding after WW2 and all that. Before you were even likely born...

Must say, this whole Brexit thing brings out the very worst in people.

Having said that, it's the governments at fault, all of them, for not renewing house-building, NHS, schools, etc. Easier to blame the forriners innit?!

We have loads, it never stopped organisation for basic needs...

Live in an EU country, am shocked to hear UK takes 6 weeks to get a doctor's appt. when I have a 5 day morning walk-in surgery. And can get an afternoon appt. for a Friday afternoon even if I phone on Tuesday a.m.

Nothing to do with EU, but your useless government basically.

If pensioners have the money to run a car and no real need for a bus pass, they don't have to get one.
There is no encroachment to personal freedoms.
If a pensioner is willing and able to pick up grandchildren or lend DC a car there is nothing to stop them.
I really don't think it would cost more than it saves.
If you don't have a driving licence you don't have to give up a freedom to get a bus pass.
It's a way of ensuring that those in need of a bus pass (eg not enough money to run a car) can get one without having to resort to means testing.
It's not a punishment.

That only makes sense if it costs less to administer, than to give everyone a bus pass. I don't know if it does.

Live in an EU country, am shocked to hear UK takes 6 weeks to get a doctor's appt. when I have a 5 day morning walk-in surgery. And can get an afternoon appt. for a Friday afternoon even if I phone on Tuesday a.m.

I live in the UK and can get an appointment to be seen the same day (emergency appts) if I ring first thing, for the next day if I ring mid-morning and usually within the next week to 10 days if I want a non-urgent appointment. We are in Wales, though, so I am not sure if that makes the difference. I can't fault our busy urban practice. It is very well run and the doctors are very, very good.

And what of those who need a car for emergency or irregular use, but want to limit their addition to car pollution, congestion, etc., In day to day life?

If pensioners have the money to run a car and no real need for a bus pass, they don't have to get one

What was actually said - I think that pensioners should have to surrender their driving licences to get a free bus pass. Not that if they have a car then they don't have to apply for a pass, but if they DO apply then in the poster's opinion they should be able to have one or the other, not both. If that isn't an encroachment on personal freedom then how would you describe it? effectively the poster thinks that pensioners who want a bus pass but have a car should be compelled to give up the cars they've purchased with their own money and be tied to a form of transport that might not be at all suitable for them or run in their area or be convenient for them.

I can get a Drs appointment same day. There are some places where they have trouble recruiting Drs. Being short staffed leads to long delays in getting appointments.

Live in an EU country, am shocked to hear UK takes 6 weeks to get a doctor's appt.

It doesnt!

There really isn't an encroachment of personal freedom. There is nothing to stop pensioners from paying for a bus ticket if they don't want to use their cars.

There is encroachment if it is only pensioners such a rule applies to!

And why so hung up on a bus pass? There are much, much bigger pots of money going elsewhere to focus on... but I suppose pensioners are the absolute end, as far as fashionable objects of distaste go!

And if the pensioner doesn't live on a bus route... But drives to a park and ride car park and takes the bus to get to hospital appointments or to go into town to save on the parking???... They should still use the park and ride as its better for the congestion of the town, it frees up the hospital car park for those that have to use it. Just leave the penisoners alone ...FGS many have worked bloody hard and of course OP you are never going to be in a situation like this are you??????

Rosa, I don't think many posters who dislike the bus pass have any idea how few and far between buses are once you are outside bigger cities.

Noone ever responds to posts that say "But we only have 1 bus a day, at 8.30 and the free pass starts after 9" or that here are 0 buses without a 3 mile walk over hill and dale to the nearest bus stop - that goes to the wrong town anyway!

If bus passes were taken away many urban pensioners would need to use cars much or often, adding to urban traffic jams etc.... and as it seems many of the posters who want the passes gone are urbanites, maybe I should add my voice to the 'Take it away' campaign

Many seem to imagine that bus passes are used to pop around town, dropping in on Ethel and Bert! The realities of some rural areas escape some posters here.... My last house, 7 miles outside a county city. To get to hospital in that county city: walk 3 miles to a bus stop, going to one town, changing buses to get across to the right city and then a third to get across to the hospital. That would have taken about 2 1/2 hours!

a) the bus pass is really not as important to the nation's finances as some would believe

b) the bus pass is not as useful to many pensioners, as few here might believe

c) there are many other, more expensive expenditures that would bear more scrutiny... why are we all being distracted by a bus pass?