To think stopping the pension triple lock and bus passes would reduce inequality

[feellikeahugefailure]

Yes it would be great to give everyone free bus travel and put up their money each year. But the country is already in a financial black hole.

Most other benefits have been frozen for years but pensioners protected. Also the bus pass is given universally and not means tested, where as the bus pass for the unemployed was axed years ago.

There are many people like my wealthy ex in-laws who used the bus pass to avoid paying parking and getting the BMW scratched. The state pension they always called peanuts - as it was compared to their final salary pension. These changes would not affect their lifestyle one bit.

Ideally I'd like unemployed people and poor pensioners to get some help with bus travel (as it can be super expensive) and increases each year in money to allow people at the bottom to live their life with dignity, regardless of age.

jobhap.com/bus-passes-and-state-pensions-triple-lock-threat-on-brexit/

FYI - (if you are just one £1 over the magic income figure of £150 pw (single) and therefore not in receipt of pension credit) you DO NOT get full council tax benefit, cold weather payments, warm home discount and many other 'freebies' automatically.
so restricting bus pass and WFA to pension credit recipients would be unfair.
you all do seem to have very well-heeled relatives which is maybe why you have this idea that all pensioners are so fortunate when lots are like me with a gross income of around £13k pa

If you means test them, administration costs will jump, they will become stigmatised and poor pensioners will miss out due to not claiming.

More importantly, if the tacit sanctity of pensioners benefits is breached, it will be another nail in the coffin of the welfare safety net. Voters support universal provision that they will get something back from. When they lose their stake (as with child benefit) the "scrounger" rhetoric begins.

Disagree, you could argue that there are less cars on the road and then they may go into London and spend money on theatre, restaurants etc. My dm goes on the bus to the hospital as the parking there is limited.

mollie123 - if you're on £13k per annum, the you're already better off than lots of young people working NMW jobs.

Poverty in the young working population is a huge problem.

The thing that really botgers me is that state and private pensions are effectively pyramid selling. The current pensioners argue "well, I paid my taxes - now I'm getting ny money back and you'll get yours in turn", but our current tax take (I'm in my 40s) is being used to pay current pension entitlements. We are already looking at deferrals of our start dates to 67, 68 and so it goes. The suspicion is that there won't be money available to pay the entitlements we've been promised and our benefits we get will be nowhere near as current benefits. So when I hear about very wealthy pensioners (and see it in my own family) drawing benefits they don't need, like winter fuel allowance and free bus passes, I think it is entirely wrong. Immoral even, when the financial help to enable 16-18 year olds from low income households stay in education to 18 (in many cases paying bus fees that enabled them to get to college) or disability benefits are rationalised. It's not on!

Absolutely. Many of the younger people who are paying the pensions of the OAPs who have 30 years of retirement which we will never have, have not even had a 1% rise a year for the last 10 years. Many have had no rises at all i.e. huge pay cuts whilst we've protected the pensioners. If these pensioners who are voting for Brexit don't realise that Brexit means much much less money to spread around then they need to have it hammered home to them.

Some of these people have had pensions from a very young age when those of us still working will be nearly 70 before we get a state pension. We just cannot afford all these protections any more for the elderly.

Giving pensioners bus passes keeps cars off the road, reduces congestion and - dare I say it? - removed drivers who may not have the quickest of reactions.

And the 'poor twenty somethings' with increased housing costs and student loans? Far more go to university now than did forty years ago, when people were more likely to learn on the job, or in night school. Forty years ago young people didn't travel round the world, go abroad for weekends, own cars, or have so much tech.

I'm not saying people now have it easier - but they have it different!

If they can means test some benefits, they can means test them all. The inequality is staggering. The line that you can't fuck with the income of pensioners, but can put children into poverty and make life unliveable for the disabled pisses me off no end.

Of course you can means test, but essentially if the figure you are giving out is less than the cost of means testing it is pointless. So it isn't pointless for a 200p/m tax credit award, but may be for a bus pass.

Will be nowhere near as generous... And a host of other typos. You get my drift.

As for bus passes, it would cost more to means test than not. Of those who are able to still drive most won't take up the option of a free bus pass. Those that do, actually preserve the existence of bus routes by proving there is a demand for the service, so actually its not a bad thing in the long term.

This isn't actually true - there was a programme about it on radio 4 about 18 months ago. The economics don't stack up - the central government sudsidies don't come anywhere near to offsetting the lost bus fares for pensioners on free passes. In some regions the bus companies are having to reduce or close less frequently used services (eg to outlying villages in rural areas) to stay afloat.

I thought pensioners could opt out of WFA, and it only kicks in if the temperature drops to a certain level anyway.

Personally, I don't know any comfortable pensioners who have opted out.

*jacks
Also, remember from a politician's point of view pensioners are more likely to vote- they are unlikely to want to upset that particular apple cart

That's why Cameron's threatening the bus pass and the triple lock now. The Remain camp obviously feel they have had no luck persuading older voters to vote Remain in order to preserve economic opportunities for the younger generation, so now they're just appealing to their self interest.

It's a difficult one.. We want to encourage people to save hard, pay into pensions, pay off mortgages. If we strip the hard-working of every benefit, they will have no incentive to work as hard and the taxpayer picks up the tab anyhow.

I have friends who live opulent lives and save nothing. I save hard and live modestly. I can guess which of us will have a bus pass and care paid for when we are old.

A pensioner who's private pension income is such that they are a 40% tax payer has no need for a state pension IMO. Yes I get the "pay in all our lives now we want something out" but times change, the country has changed, the vastly increased health and lifespans have changed and so I think It's time to change.

Ageing population combined with young people not voting means it'll never pass, like.

Far more go to university now than did forty years ago, when people were more likely to learn on the job, or in night school.

But OU fees have risen to (pro rata) match the £9K full-time fees and FE budgets have been scalped to fund HE expansion, particularly in Scotland where domestic students pay £0 fees. The introduction of £9k fees has also seen a huge reduction in part-time degree uptake/provision. The options available to people who want to improve their lot by studying part-time around paid work have contracted considerably during this austerity period. For many, studying full-time is the only financially viable option, though the proposed withdrawal of NHS bursaries for eg nursing degrees is going to deter a huge number of mature returners, who often make up 50% of studdnts on these courses. It absolutely stinks! The model that you are harking back to has been whittled back to the bone & isn't a viable way out of junior school-leaver entry positions any more for a lot of people.

Well, another thread having a go at the elderly. I think MN need a campaign myth busting some of the rubbish spouted here. Like the This is my child campaign.

Ageism is every bit as ugly as racism, disablism.

Age discrimination goes both ways, Apostrophes. Why no outcry about the reduced life opportunities of young people from low income households?

hainault
if you're on £13k per annum, the you're already better off than lots of young people working NMW jobs.
a young person on NMW working 35 hours a week would earn ABOUT £245 per week
my income is made up of £8K pension and a small annuity which was funded by my contributions when I was working into a personal pension (so it is my money coming back to me - if you can see that!)
I worked and paid tax (often at over 30%) and national insurance for 39 years - so that explains the state pension) and I pay tax still.
your young person on NMW can increase their income, work more hours, get a better job and can be eligible for tax credits - pensioners cannot do any of that.
you are comparing apples and oranges IMO. (and being ageist)

This country discriminates against the young, not the old.

YABU, all pensioners should get the bus pass regardless.

Age discrimination goes both ways, Apostrophes. Why no outcry about the reduced life opportunities of young people from low income households?

Loads of it on this thread, I'm just trying to redress the imbalance. The sheer spite and hatred from some posters towards the elderly is disturbing.

Another one?

I have to admot that last post made me smile.. you see your current pensioner was means tested when they were 20, 40 etc.... ages when they could be working and increasing their income. In their 70s and on, claiming pension they have no work prospect and so no way of increasing their incomes... so means testing becomes redundant.

Of course they could be unlucky. We all know people in the mid 70s who have to work... they still get means tested, taxed etc.

If you are in your 20s and finding life hard, tough. Every generation has to live through that, unless you were born into well off or wealthy families.

Those of us who were born to WC families went through the same pennieless struggle todays teens/20s are. They are not special or unique.

I hate the attitude to means testing everything in this country. These people has paid their taxes all their lives on the promise they would get some benefits when they reach pensionable age. Why should they have it taken away Becasie thy have been sensible and saved/put money into additional pensions. We should be encouraging people to do this not giving them another reason not to bother.
The attitude in this country is so mean to people that put in.
I would much rather pay a lot of tax rather than a moderate amount but everyone get access to all the benefits available to them like the Scandinavian model. Much more fair and civilised.

I really do need to proof read before I post!