Euro 16 - they should ban the countries involved in fighting

[Sherlocked1606]

Having watched the news the past few nights it's seems clear some fans have just gone to France to cause trouble.

Yes the English fans were attacked/provocted today however they were very much the instigators yesterday.

Surely Russian, France and England football teams should be disqualified from the tournament. Same goes for any other teams who's fans cause trouble.

At least 1 England fan is seriously injured potential life threatening. I've seen footage of Russian fans stamping on English fans, throwing chairs. Water cannons, tear gas. Enough is enough, it's only football.

There was a good article in the Irish Times yesterday about the English and Russians. He does mention certain factions of defensive English fans who 'raise a collective middle finger to the city' by singing songs that are meant to provoke etc. etc. but he also makes no bones about the fact that the Russians came at them. Hard.

www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ken-early-russians-go-to-war-with-an-english-myth-1.2682005

Thanks, Mitzy, that is a good article.

And triumphalist arrogance – raising your arms wide and chanting “Fk off Europe” or “Marseille is Ours” – is a challenge laid down to the local hard men. When you behave like this, you don’t have to go looking for trouble. It comes looking for you I think this is a fair point.

Mitzy

I wish I had had the elegance of speech to put that forward.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, or indeed a good virtual kicking of the English DoinItFine. Apparently it's acceptable to apply negative stereotypes to some nations but not others. As a point of note, some Northern Irish supporters were involved in violence in Nice apparently - except in that case it was described as 'French fans attacking Northern Irish supporters' as opposed to the terms we've come to associate with the 'English yobs involved in street battles and hooliganism'. The trouble in Nice was barely given air time in the media.

No Doingit the only reason landowne road came up is because some one reported that the England fans were singing songs about the IRA in France. To which there is a direct link to the events in 1995, and I said good to see they'd moved on, which actually proves that these wankers are not fans at all. What happened at lansdowne was all down to combat 18 we know that, that was very very very quickly known about.

Some one then said the English football yobs reputation wasn't fair, and they'd been scape goated this is untrue it's perfectly fair it's a reputation the yobs have earnt and deserved themselves as the events at lansdowne road prove!

Now notice I make a very clear difference between fans and supporters who travel with England to support the team and the enjoy the game like the Irish Welsh French German and every other country that are there. And the wanker yobs that know fuck all about the game, aren't there in any way there to watch a game just see wearing a white shirt with three lions on as an excuse to chant ridiculous things about a long disbanded paramilitary group and start fights and wreck towns! These people are the people we're talking about not the true England fans that have gone to enjoy the competition like any one else!

Maybe the football matches should be spectator free and not allow anybody to watch?

Good article Mitzy

I agree that football fans "normal" behaviour comes across very differently in other cultures:

Shaved / bald head = neonazi
Tattoos = seasoned criminal, possibly violent
Nakedness (even just taking t-shirt off) = unacceptable, signals the person is out of control, possibly mental health problems or drugs
Drunkenness in the street in broad daylight = again unacceptable
Also the fact that it's almost always men only totally changes the atmosphere imo

So what is possibly a group of middle aged dads having a good laugh to local police comes across as a group of violent criminals that are out of control i.e. about to attack.

This explains the local police reaction, and the ensuing accusations of heavy-handedness by the British press.

This is the way things usually go, I am aware that this time it's slightly different - Russian football fans are incredibly violent and their police and the country in general don't see a problem with that

I agree that banning teams is the way to go, it worked with Liverpool and others in the 90s.

Maybe the football matches should be spectator free and not allow anybody to watch?

Worst idea ever it would absoultely kill the game. A lot of the game is about the atmosphere players get cues from fans! And even fans need that freedom of realising the emotions that come with the game. I can not reiterate enough these yobs are not fans, I'm not kicking the England fans or airing old grievances as has been suggested up thread. But football is an emotional game, it needs spectators!

However playing games "behind closed doors" has long been a punishment, mainly for hoolganism. It's one of the things that the FA have always had in place. Which as I also said up thread the FA are one of the best associations in Europe if not the world at controlling these wankers!

Unfortunately the FA UEFA the airlines have no way of stopping these wankers from travelling.

Also not allowing fans in to the stadiums would make situations worse these wankers in the

Sorry sent to soon.

Also not allowing fans in to stadiums would make the situation worse these wankers in the large part don't care if they have a ticket or not they just want to fight a lot of the violence is done outside the stadium while the game is going on. Again proving its got bugger all to do with football.

So again punish the innocent proper fans who want to get lost I the magic of football because of the wanker minority who don't care about the game!

I agree, Naught.

Sorry, I've just had a bellyful of crowing about the crap English fans in the last few days.

I hope there is no more trouble and the English fans enjoy the rest of their tournament.

(And that they lose all their matches! The old rivalries will never die )

*Given that the Russians have been sanctioned for what their fans did to Enish fans after the match in Marseille, I think a lot of the comments on tbis thread are in extremely poor taste.

And a far cry from "showing the world how it shoukd be done" when it comes to supporting International football.

If Irish or Welsh fans had been attacked liked that there is no way English football supporters woukd be using the occasion to give vent to historical grievances.

Fucking shameful.*

Nobody has suggested that the behaviour of Russian 'supporters' is acceptable or defensible in any way. However, the fact remains that English 'supporters' behaved aggressively, endangering complete strangers purely in the name of violence.

There is no excuse for attempting to bottle members of the police. None of us would accept the excuse of 'well he was doing it too' if we saw our kids doing something wrong. You cannot throw missiles indiscriminately into crowds, or at police, or be verbally abusive and racist, and then offer as a defence 'well he was worse than me'. That's now it works.

What is 'fucking shameful' is not people's behaviour on this thread, it is the behaviour of certain groups of people in France.

This is not about venting about historical grievances. They are current grievances. It is not acceptable to stand outside an Irish bar in Marseille singing 'No surrender to the IRA'.

And it is not smugness to have some sense of pride in how your countrymen are representing themselves abroad. Far better for them to be on the internet singing 'Dancing Queen' with a bunch of Swedish supporters before a match, or changing a tyre for an elderly couple, or singing 'Stand up for the Ulstermen' for the Northern Irish fan who died, than being on it for bottling police, setting off flares in the street or fighting with bar men. None of those acts involved Russians. It is violence and aggression for it's own sake, and is indefensible, and unfortunately, is not a once-off.

The thuggery amongst the English fans is sadly not confined to a minority. It's laughable on here some people defending them, and trying to minimise their behaviour.
There has been lots of eye witness accounts from people of all nationalities that English fans have initiated a lot of the trouble. They are an embarrassment and an absolute disgrace.

I hope the team are disqualified, and sent home. A message is needed to be sent loud and clear. Oh and I hope Ireland and Wales have a great tournament.

Oh I was never crowing about the actual England fans being crap. I actually loved every minute of euro 96 (despite Ireland not qualifying) because of the fact it was in England where the FA and British police could handle the thugs and keep them away from the games it was a great festival football it should be. And those are the England fans that really don't deserve to be punished by banning England from the rest of euro 16 or playing behind closed doors.

What was carping on about was the fact these wankers do deserve their reputation and it was annoying me it was being labelled unfair, like they'd done nothing!

Ah I don't mind how far England go, I'm just hoping Martin, Roy and the boys in green go further!

Personally, I cannot stand Football, have friends that enjoy it, surely if they didnt pay these guys so much money, my friends would not be complaining about the huge amount of tickets to go and watch these matches.Had to put up with OH (who says HE cannot stand football) screaming at the TV, I went to bed in the end. Was very shocked to see the violence, horrified, someone could inflict this on another human being. One English thug was a NURSE for Gods sake, said he made a "mistake"

What are you talking about nanny what does the cost of tickets have to do with violence?!
Who are these guys that are being paid huge snouts of money? The yobs or the footballers themselves. If you mean the footballers what the hell has that got to do with the violence?! It's not the footballers themselves that have caused the violence!

I don't think the French heavy handedness at some of the incidents is because of cultural misinterpretation. French police are always like that, whether it is quelling crowds, dealing with blockaders, or refugees - their response is to get the tear gas out and beat the living shit out of people.

As I said upthread, the French police are a strange mix of violent, yet ineffectual.

If you mean the footballers what the hell has that got to do with the violence?! It's not the footballers themselves that have caused the violence

No, but they do behave very badly. I saw someone do something to another player during one of the matches (Belgium-Italy?) and commented to my husband that if our son did that to someone at school he'd be excluded! The referee didn't even give him a yellow card.

Bit confused about the comment above about young people in England being horribly violent. Really? I've lived here most of my life and haven't experienced that at all. Where on earth do you live?

There has been lots of eye witness accounts from people of all nationalities that English fans have initiated a lot of the trouble.

There has been a lot also that have said they didn't initiate a lot of it.

One thing surely everyone can agree on is that keys hope it doesn't continue.

Russian 'fans' were apparently attacking English and Welsh supporters last night in Lille.

I really really hope tonight it doesn't seriously kick off as I fear it might.

I think the English fans wound up the French police. Then the Russian gangs waded in. They know the English will react so easy pickings. Plus I read these Russian gangs are trained and don't drink whereas the English are sinking pints left right and centre.

No, but they do behave very badly. I saw someone do something to another player during one of the matches (Belgium-Italy?) and commented to my husband that if our son did that to someone at school he'd be excluded! The referee didn't even give him a yellow card*

Again an entirely different issue and one I partly agree with you on the behaviour on the football pitch at times is a disgrace. Rugby which is seen as a much rougher game wouldn't allow the dissent and mockery and petulant dangerous tackling that goes on the football pitch. And I'd quite like to see the introduction of the rule that's already in rugby that only the captain can approach the ref and that if a ref is talking to a player the captain also has to be present.
But I don't actually think it would have a massive affect on these idiots who can't control themselves and aren't their for the football.

The violence is a football issue but it's not about influenced by the wages players are paid the price of tickets or behaviour on the pitch. It's just brainless yobs who are generally told what to hunk and do by nationalist thug groups!

Was the last bit of the post aimed at me where have I said that the U.K. Is horribly violent

Plus I read these Russian gangs are trained

Very trained. Gum Shields MMA gloves aren't usual attire for football matches.

They were interviewing a Russian 'fan' last night who said some very spine chilling stuff about their 'aims'.

I'd quite like to see the introduction of the rule that's already in rugby that only the captain can approach the ref and that if a ref is talking to a player the captain also has to be present.

Rugby is really interesting. Dh and I have discussed this. There is no swearing at the ref, no dissent, players are respectful and the ref's decision really is final. The players know that and appear to be very courteous. As you say, I don't think 'professionalising' football in this sense will make any difference to the behaviour of fans though. It's just curious that football attracts thuggery while rugby is seen as the more family oriented and professional game. Is it to do with the roots of each game?

The English fans were winding up the French police trying to wind up the Irish and Welsh fans who didn't bite once! IRA chants outside a pub where Irish famlies were enjoying a meal and mixing with lots of other fans happily.
My friend (english by the way) witnessed three occasions when these Thugs were chanting Fuck Europe, We're leaving anyway..
They are absolute scum, and i'm astonished at the minimising on this thread. You really are living in Cloud Cuckoo land, if you think the Russians were picking on the poor English fans.
The Russian fans are in a league of their own for violence and thuggery. As i said earlier, the English fans have met their match at least and are whining like babies..