To refuse to accept and apology and explanation from the hospital that treated my dad so appallingly until they amend the letter they sent me

[Oldsu]

Long story but my dad was misdiagnosed and nearly died, when the mistake was discovered the Hospital lied and tried to cover it up. Its taken a lot of time and effort by me and dads GP to get the hospital to admit liability and to apologise, I got the letter yesterday and quite frankly I am furious.

The letter was addressed to me 'Mrs Oldsu' both consultants were referred to by their title, dads, GP was referred to by her title, but every time they mentioned dad they used his first name, He was very ill when he was in Hospital so did not, could not give permission for the nursing staff to call him by his first name, and to make matters worse his official first name which they insisted on calling him in hospital (despite my objections) is not the one he uses, he hates his first name and uses his middle name in every day life.

I have returned their pathetic excuse for an apology and told them to rewrite it using my dads title, then and only then will I consider the matter closed, BTW my dad and the family are not seeking compensation an apology will do a plus reassurances that procedures are now in place so that it doesn't happen to anyone else's dad.

I am sure there will be medical apologists on here replying saying its some sort of tradition or procedure, I call it lack of courtesy and respect and totally unacceptable.

Notsure, you're right! You have reminded me of my own recent - and very short - treatment. Everyone, but everyone, I came into contact with from the paramedics (one the evening before, and one in the morning when I was actually taken into hospital, so 2 lots) to the consultant I saw in the end who discharged me, all the nurses, porters, admin, and at least 3 junior doctors, every single one of them asked me how they should address me in one way or another first, and then followed my preference.

It does seem to be absolute habit across the board. First thing get the preferred form of address. Second thing, use it.

It does sound like your hospital, Oldsu, have missed that bit of first day training.

I can't believe that anyone could think YABU. First there is the patronising aspect, where the professionals are Mr and Dr but your dad is Firstname. Then they show that they really don't care and know nothing about him by not even using the right name.

Lots of people in my family use our middle names. Many years ago my Grandma was in hospital and the nurses reported that her dementia was really bad as she wasn't even responding to her name. This was because they were calling her by a name that none of us had ever heard her called. I was going to say that things are better now as some PPs have said, bit obviously not for you, OP. I think you are completely right.

YANBU at all OP, from an NHS clinical staff member who has to respond to patient complaints.

I did one last week and wrote Statement in response to letter re. Henry Bloggs (Hospital No. 001234) - not real name (obvs) and referred to complainant as Mr Bloggs throughout.

I then noted that the original letter referred to Mr CHW Bloggs and spotted that his preferred name was Bill so changed the heading to CHW Bloggs as I thought it would be disrespectful to even head the letter with a name that a patient is not usually addressed by never mind referring him to it throughout the letter.

Hope your DF is doing OK now OP and that he gets the response he deserves. It will take a minute to change it, in response to the 'haven't NHS staff got better things to do brigade'.

YANBU, write back to the chief executive using a derivative of his first name.

Dear Pete, ...

And ask exactly why your father has been referred to in this way and does it fit with the hospital's philosophy on dignity and respect. The only time I could accept this would be if a child was the subject of the letter.

Fwiw I have pursued some quite major complaints. One via legal route and one via PALs. It is exhausting and demoralising and from the PALs experience I did get a letter of apology but it was the 'sorry if you are upset' type. I wanted to know that nobody else would suffer my experience but don't think I did achieve that. My GP wanted me to complain to the GMC but I simply haven't got the energy.

YANBU. Was it your father who received (shit) treatment, or your dog? No excuse for using his first name and giving everyone else their surnames and titles.

Totally agree with OP your father is the most important person the letter is talking about not the doctors or consultants but your father so he should be addressed properly with respect and dignity!
Yes the nhs is overstretched but the author of this letter is being paid to do so therefore should do it properly it's common decency to show this man the respect he deserves at 86!
I guess it feels like another kick in the teeth after everything you and your father have been through and I understand why this has angered you.

I really get where you're coming from. I'm a GP in my early 50s. I hate being called by my first name (apart from one or two patients I know really well) I am Dr x and call my patients Mr/Mrs/miss/Ms Y. I do call them from the waiting room as "joe Bloggs" as there are occasionally 2 people of the same name or worse people with given and surname which are interchangeable and then they both stand up.

Stand your ground! Get the letter re-wriiten in the way your dad would have wanted. Then you can have closure. It isn`t a first world problem. They cocked up and shows a further lack of respect.

I am Dr x and call my patients Mr/Mrs/miss/Ms Y.

What do you call patients who are also Dr?

You ASK them what they want to be called.

My Mum absolutely hated it that the doctors and nurses all insisted on calling her by her first name when she was in hospital. She said she felt she had very little dignity left- and using her first name was removing what little she had left. When she asked them to use the more formal address they got very snippy about it and either said it with over exageration or still called her by her first name.

(This was a large teaching hospital btw)

I call doctors 'Dr Whatever', whether they are medical or academic doctors - that is provided that the record tells me they have a 'title' (I see my 'doctor' as more of a job description tbh).
Fwiw, I am in Scotland, our practice uses Vision and no title is visible. I frequently get Mrs/Miss wrong simply because I call all women 'Mrs' as a default (rightly or wrongly) and some unmarried women really don't like it.
Not much I can do about it, if it's somebody I only see once in a blue moon, other than to apologise.

Older doctors were trained in an era of deference. So Dr X vs given name is about class and power.

Middle-aged doctors mistakenly think people are put at ease by being called by their first names. Younger doctors are from a much more relaxed society where first names are used universally. Both forget that (a) some of their patients don't like it and (b) people who are already stressed and feeling vulnerable like such small crumbs of respect as can be mustered.

NHS non-doctors tend to have an excessive deference to those that are, so over-compensate in things like letters, and making introductions.

It's a perfect storm of misunderstanding. All of which could be solved by either (a) asking first or (b) just sticking to Title Surname, which should be on their notes.

Oh, I do ask people what their preferred form of address is and use that.
But will have forgotten that when they come back - it's amazing how so many patients assume that I know everything about them and their lives and will say 'Well, it's still the same" and when I ask what is still the same it turns out it's their knee pain they saw me about some 5 years ago
My ability to retain names, never mind titles is rubbish. I am more than happy to apologise for that personal failing and I will do my best.
I most certainly do not use first names unless invited to do so.

our practice uses Vision and no title is visible

Which says it all, really.

I have worked as PA to medical directors and clinical directors of hospitals. When responding to patients we ALWAYS used titles and surnames.

YANBU op.

YABU. This is ridiculous

lolalament I don't think courtesy and respect are ridiculous and I feel sorry for you if you think otherwise.

lolament

So addressing someone by their full name and title in a letter is ridiculous?
Despite the fact that EVERYBODY else in the letter is accorded that respect?

Its downright disrespectful and just shows they have no intention of genuinely apologising, they are just reeling of a standard letter without actually considering who the letter is for. Any name will do, as they hope it will make the patient shut up and go away and not point out their damming misteaks anymore.

Bolograph
I'm 50. The majority of older doctors working now were trained in the late 1970s to early 1980s, when I trained as a nurse. They definitely weren't trained in an era of deference!

The older doctors I worked with in the 80s, on the other hand, were trained in an era of deference, but they'd have been trained in the 1950s and past retirement now. And frankly, if they're stll working they're either dangerous or fully deserving of that deference!

our practice uses Vision and no title is visible. - Which says it all, really.

Yes.
But it is also totally outwith my control.
And IMO as long as I stick to Mr Whatever and Mrs Soandso I hope people feel I address them politely and with respect. And they are v welcome to correct me. I also means that I do not use 'Dr' as an address routinely.

The deference one is interesting, isn't it?
I have absolutely no desire to be treated with deference (normal kind of civility will do, I appreciate no verbal abuse, no peeing in the corner of my consulting room (really!) and a preparedness to accept that I cannot hold in my head all details of a long past medical history, so may need a bit of help with catching up).
Equally, I am of the opinion that sometimes people would like The Doctor to be All-Knowing and All-Powerful and able to Fix Everything. Which no doctor possible can - we are very normal, fallible human beings with a bit of specialist knowledge and maybe experience.
I don't want deference or know-towing and I am VERY aware of the intrinsic power imbalance between patients and doctors (I happen to also be a patient).
And please don't find it hilarious when your doctor is ill - we feel crap too and somebody going 'Haha, you sound all choked up!' does not help.

Sorry. Rant over.

I've just spent 2 hours on a reply to a spurious complaint...

I agree with you OP. Of course it is rude, disrespectful and not at all in the spirit of an apology. They should have that pointed out and be obliged to do it properly, yes.

I wouldn't make yourself crosser on this thread though. It's sounds like you've had enough stress already.