I'm NOT fat

[TheJollyPostmansWife]

Name change as about to give all details as too late to text friends for advice. Visiting DHs family today, out for lunch where I had a prawn salad. After I finished I reached over to nick a bit of my dds bread and as I did so My DHs grandmother piped up 'not watching your figure then?'. This is not the first time she has been rude about my weight and to be honest I am really pissed off. We see them very rarely and I don't think she has any right to make personal comments at all - last time she said something she suggested I would lose my looks and therefore my husband if I carried on the way I was. I don't think it's important as I don't think anyone should comment on others appearance but for context I go to the gym 3-5 times a week, walk the dog at least an hour every day and see a personal trainer weekly. I am five foot one, 9 stone 3 and size 8. I'm not normally so sensitive but I don't want to see the woman again, she is elderly and not in good health and adores my dds. Aibu to refuse to see her? I would never stop the dds but we live the other side of the country which is obviously limiting.

But why was it necessary to say she was only four pounds away from being overweight? That's the bit that baffles me and reads as a dig. She's clearly upset by the comment, she feels it's unfounded - why does she need to be reined in with the implication that she's not fat yet but she nearly is. It comes across as an unpleasant way of policing women's weights, of telling them they should be thinner even if they are a healthy weight.

It doesn't work like that Mango - no one can say exactly how many years for an individual - but the full research is here if you are interested:

www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2156

This looked at 230 cohort studies with 3.74 million deaths among 30.3 million participants. That's a big pool of data.

"I'd much rather die a bit earlier than linger around for ever with dementia or similar tbh"

The thing is, being heavier especially being overweight or obese, will not give you a shorter, healthier life. Being overweight or obese increases you risk of almost all types of cancer, of diabetes, heart disease, and yes, also dementia:

"Obesity in mid-life is linked to a heightened risk of dementia in later life, concludes an observational study published online today (Wednesday 20 August) in Postgraduate Medical Journal.
The researchers at the University of Oxford found that the age at which a person is obese seems to be a key factor - with an apparent tripling in the risk of developing dementia for people who are obese in their thirties."
www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/news_article.php?newsID=2150

So if you don't want to develop dementia, you would be very well advised not to be overweight.

1 in 20 cases of cancer in the UK are caused by being overweight.
www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/bodyweight-and-cancer

So really, if health rather than longevity is what's important to you, it's even more important not be overweight.

LaserShark
"But why was it necessary to say she was only four pounds away from being overweight? That's the bit that baffles me and reads as a dig."

The point I was trying to make is that no one knows exactly what someone else's weight is by looking at them, but someone hovering very close to being overweight probably does look a bit fat.

'Fat'' is not a strict scientific term. OP KNOWS that she looks a bit chubby at the moment, she's said so herself. And it makes sense to try to get your weight under control, and back to a healthier point, before it becomes a real problem and you have loads to lose. Not finishing food off your kids' plates, or absentmindedly eating leftover bread, is probably a good place to start - rather than waiting until it gets to the point where you've got several stone to lose.

TheStoic I wonder how many more times you'll attempt to get at me with these personal insults? I think that's about the 4th time you've tried to get a rise out of me by calling me boring. And yet you keep coming back, reading my posts, and then posting these little snipey content-less responses that add nothing at all to the thread. You can keep going if it makes you happy but it's of no interest to me. I'm interested in the actual discussions going on here. If you're not, then you know what, there's a big wide internet out there with lots of other places you could be.

These threads always turn into borefests where some posters bang on, and on, and on, and on, and on, about how being at the upper end of the BMI just.isn't.good.enough.

The problem is that when we talk about women's bodies it is not in a vacuum where we can be completely objective about ourselves. The grandmother feels she is entitled to comment on the OP's weight because the rudeness of such a personal comment is outweighed by her conviction that being overweight is worse than being hurtful. Perhaps because she has absorbed the relentless message with which we are bombarded that a woman's role is to be decorative and her attractiveness is a measure of her worth.

Nowadays, that same message is being framed in more insidious and subtle ways. So people talk about health and earnestly, sincerely discuss the importance of confronting the rising obesity rates (to which the OP is not contributing) with honesty, doing away with denial and making people see the truth FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. You're basically doing her a favour by reminding her that she's nearly fat and if she doesn't stop her greedy habits then she will be fat and then she'll get diabetes and cancer and dementia and die young (probably with some relief, after all those hideous health problems that really she only has herself to blame for).

And that would be fine if weight wasn't such a sensitive issue for women in particular because of the bombardment of messages we receive on a daily basis about the importance of achieving physical perfection. If women always reached that magical, optimim BMI which will grant us all perfect health and longevity, in a healthy way. If they only ever got there through a balanced diet and exercise.

But we know that isn't the case. We know that women starve themselves into osteoporosis, that they take dangerous weight loss supplements, that they weaken their bodies through extreme crash diets, they may abuse laxatives or induce vomiting, that they berate themselves daily for their repulsive weakness, that they live day in and day out with a relentless gnawing hunger that destroys their peace of mind and still they are not good enough.

So when you criticise someone's weight for not being perfect, you feed further into that maelstrom. You may truly have only their health and wellbeing in mind, but remember that a lot of women undergo a great deal of turmoil with regards to their weight and that they won't necessarily respond to your warnings by eating more veggies and going to the gym. It's a toxic culture and some women can be very vulnerable to these messages.

This thread wasn't about weight. It was about the obsession with women's appearance.

It would have been an interesting theoretical discussion - then someone like you shows up to actually prove its point.

You are the problem the OP was talking about.

This thread wasn't about weight until you flew in to point out that if the OP wasn't worried about her weight - she bloody well should be.

Proteus: dig dig dig...

Laser I've fought against anorexia and bulimia for over 20 years of my life, since my early teens.

Honestly, I understand everything you're saying (I think it's very well) and I don't need a reminder of the turmoil that body weight/image can cause.

at the same time... I see a huge amount of reaction against that which can be equally damaging. I see an automatic denial that there's any problem at all with being overweight, I see a pushing of dangerous myths about being overweight actually being healthier, I see a rush to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with this, and I see a warped perception among almost everyone i know. If you look around you most people are fat and getting fatter.

Those health issues and those scientific studies are real, and when you look at them on a society-wide level, it has some very scary implications for the future.

I think the low-level policing of other people's eating (such as reminding mums not to eat all their kids' leftovers) is not necessarily a terrible thing.

sorry Laser that should read:

"Honestly, I understand everything you're saying (I think it's very well said ) "

I think the low-level policing of other people's eating (such as reminding mums not to eat all their kids' leftovers) is not necessarily a terrible thing.

Are you for real? How utterly patronising.

YANBU to be offended, but cutting all contact is a bit much.

Have you considered why she seems to be hitting a raw nerve (have you had weight issues in the past? )

No slim, fit, healthy, happy, adult woman needs her food intake policing by anyone.

Least of all by people with disordered eating and body issues.

This much is obvious.

No one should have to put up with offensive comments. Assert how it makes you feel, call on her behaviour, but don't feel you need to defend your weight, size, food intake to her or anyone else. They are not health professionals that you sought for advice, so why should they make unsolicited personal comments.

You don't need to be put in a position which makes you feel uncomfortable. so just get up and leave, perhaps the others will then have enough balls to confront her politely when you've gotten up from the table in protest. You don't need to say too much, just sufficient action sometimes lets people know they've crossed a boundary of what you find acceptable.

That's all right, my GM called fat for years, then when I grew up and lost the weight just through my body maturing, she asked if I was anorexic! I said, "no, but if I was it would be your fault!"

That would work, Proteus, if we weren't so immersed in this misogynistic and poisonous culture when it comes to female appearance. If we're all well adjusted about our weight and fat isn't demonised as a terrible failing then we could handle people gently pointing out that we need to put the fork down and clean the buttercream off our hairline and maybe take a walk. But it's difficult not to perceive it as wounding and painful criticism that bares our vulnerability and exposes a raw nerve. We need to say that getting fat doesn't mean you are grotesque, greedy or unwomanly, take the shame and the pain away from it and then we can actually address it in a sensible way. But with things as they stand, reminding people they are a cake or two away from being overweight and actually they need to lose a bit already because a healthy BMI actually means you might be fat anyway and then listing all the terrifying health issues in store for them isn't encouraging or helpful. It's not the right way around it. I'm not saying I know what the right solution is, but I know it's not telling women that as well as being fat they're too bloody sensitive and have to take a bit of honesty. Sometimes that approach works. Often it causes disaster.

Proteus, I hope you have your food & eating issues under control now and that you're doing well

I would agree though that someone who has issues around food, image & disordered eating is not best placed to lecture other women about their body image & weight.

A history of Anorexia & Bulimia is likely to wreak far more havoc on a person's long term health than being at the higher end of 'normal' BMI tbh.
Good muscle mass & a healthy fat mass is likely to tip a person toward the higher end of healthy or just over, and the benefits from the strength & resistance training that give this outcome are immense.

And if you openly rebuke that mum for eating her kids' leftovers in public, chances are she'll just do it in private next time. You won't help her health, you'll just reinforce to her that her eating is shameful and should be hidden. The problem won't get solved.

Laser I don't know what the right approach is either, but as the mum of a daughter (and a son) I spend a lot of time trying to work it out.
I would like to say though that I didn't call the OP grotesque, greedy or unwomanly, and I didn't think it either. It's not always implied...(I do understand the point you are making though, but sometimes people project things that aren't there)

Mango Thank you.. I wouldn't say it's entirely under control, I don't think these things ever go away, and they tend to recur at times of stress.

I'm not speaking to anyone from a position of moral superiority, but I do do a lot of reading in this area and a lot of thinking about it. Which does put me in a position to counter specific dangerous myths (such as being overweight is more healthy) with recent, large-scale scientific research.

What you look like in a bikini or what size jeans you wear may be trivial, but I think things like the likelihood of developing cancer, cardiovascular disease, and dementia really matter to us all.

I agree with you that long-term anorexia and bulimia is very damaging for your health - of course. I am not recommending it!

I disagree with this though:
Good muscle mass & a healthy fat mass is likely to tip a person toward the higher end of healthy or just over, and the benefits from the strength & resistance training that give this outcome are immense.

People have posted upthread that very muscular athletes such as the Williams sisters and Jess Ennis have BMIs around 20-22. I personally do a lot of strength and resistance training and my BMI is 20. If I gain weight I never kid myself that it's from muscle. There are almost no female athletes whose muscle mass, rather than excess fat, puts them anywhere near the top end of healthy BMI.

The grandmother was rude and out of order, good that your MIL stuck up for you!

Proteus your comments are pretty rude, you may read up to the nth degree on weight and health but doesn't mean we all have to go down that path. I'm overweight but have no intention of losing it, I want to be healthy and happy. Leave the OP alone.

That's an interesting meta-study Proteus. It certainly tries to adjust for potential bias from other studies. Most interestingly it actually finds that their seems to be 3 BMI's associated with decreased mortality, 24-25, 22-23 and 20-22 (dependent on smoking and disease). So basically the spectrum of a healthy BMI.

It also finds that mortality goes in a J shape on a graph, so you have the same risk death with a BMI of 18 that you do with a BMI of 30.

It also doesn't factor in whether any of the participants caught and survived life threatening diseases during the periods of study or whether at the 20/25 year follow ups whether they currently had diseases (or had increased or decreased in weight, etc etc etc).

Many of the studies it bases itself on where also based on questionnaires, not actually following patients during the time. I know I never give my exact weight in a questionnaire. :P

I know it says it couldn't properly adjust for diet or exercise levels either, so....

A very interesting study that raises a lot of questions. Certainly the same questions that similar studies that found a decrease in mortality at higher normal and overweight BMI's found.

A study finding isn't proof, hell, a 100 study findings of the exact same things can't even be considered proof.

I'm not speaking to anyone from a position of moral superiority, but I do do a lot of reading in this area and a lot of thinking about it. Which does put me in a position to counter specific dangerous myths (such as being overweight is more healthy) with recent, large-scale scientific research.

I suggest if you're going to continue reading studies about issues like these that you actually learn to read the whole thing and judge objectively with the idea that one study, or even many studies, is not proof of anything. Proof is a word scientists and researchers don't use.

Decreased mortality at higher normal BMI's and overweight BMI's is not a "myth" it's a finding from several studies. The study you keep mentioning is one study that factors for smoking and the possibility for un-found terminal diseases at the time of initial weigh in. That is all.

(and a meta-study isn't a study in itself, it's taking a whole bunch of studies, reading them and their results, and making an statistical prediction based on them. Not the same as the actually original studies that may have included real live patients).

thefitfatty Yes, I agree with lots of your analysis there, particularly regarding self-reporting of weight, and there has been some interesting follow up debate and alternative studies.

In some instances they looked at the BMI of people's CHILDREN on the basis that there is a strong correlation between parents and children. In other cases they looked at people's MAXIMUM past weight rather than their current weight.

There are loads of different ways to approach it and all have difficulties.

I think the overwhelming weight of evidence (no pun intended) is that the range of BMI currently defined as healthy is indeed about right (with a question mark over the 18.5-19, and 24-24.9 ranges)

now late for a meeting but will return to thread later! and can link to related studies if you're interested