to remind you all to go and get your smear tests done if they are due or overdue!

[RedCrimson]

8 years ago I had severe dyskaryosis (pre cancerous cells) and was bloody lucky I got it all taken away when I did.

I went for my yearly smear today and the nurse was new to cytology and I was the first smear she's ever done (supervised by my usual nurse).

So I just want to remind you to get yours done if it's due. I very much doubt I'd be here now if I hadn't have gotten the treatment when I did.

Is there any woman on MN that doesn't know about smear tests and how to get an appointment if they want one? Anyone? Thought not.

If threads like this get a few people going who haven't gone because of apathy then it's worth while

Are you interested in reading the evidence?

That comment was addressed to me. I don't think any evidence would convince me. My cc was caught fairly early thanks to a smear test. Stage 1b1 to be exact. But you didn't quote my next sentence saying

If you've done your research and choose not to, then that is a perfectly valid choice too.

Infection with HPV is a risk factor for cervical cancer (albeit a big risk factor) but you can get CC without having HPV.

I would like to expand on the subject of HPV; I've recently sat in a lot of oncology lectures and one clear message was that HPV positive status is associated with poorer outcomes (i.e. reduced treatment efficacy, lower survival rates) in cases of head and neck cancer (which generally sets in in your 60s, if it's going to). I was surprised as I had only heard of the CC link before. Therefore, anyone who is on the fence about the merits of HPV vaccination (for themselves or their daughters) really ought to consider these additional risks of HPV infection.

Sorry, bit off topic but relevant I think.

I have them yearly at the moment due to abnormal cells which were removed with loop diathermy 5 years ago. My sister had to have the same thing. Our aunt died of cervical cancer when she was younger than I am now. We think she ignored a call back early on. I remember her decline and death. It was terrifying. I am hugely pro the testing regime, as you might imagine.

You can get CC without HPV but it's unlikely. HPV causes nearly all CC - there are other risk factors but they go hand in hand. So if you have HPV then multiple pregnancies increases your risk.

The HPV vaccination is a great thing and I will get my son vaccinated.

Sorry for mini-hijack, but a question for anyone who knows about this kind of thing: I had what I as told was HPV as a child, in the form of warts on my hands. Is this the "same" HPV that increases your risk of CC?

I can't find an answer by googling. Have put off smear test for ages (I'm 30).

I bloody hate these threads, so patronising

so don't click on them.

I hate these threads because they are patronising and full of emotive bullying and blackmail.

BUT

I click on them because I passionately believe in the promotion of evidence based medicine and giving women accurate information so they can make informed decisions.

It is so important. Women in particular do seem to be at the mercy of being pressured and manipulated to behave in a certain way and make the 'correct' health decision. My passion for the way women are treated by the health care system is not restricted to smears, which my posting history will testify to.

Woman are treated in an appalling fashion.

This is contrary to medical ethics and deeply undermines trust in health care in general. It raises huge questions over consent.

Women are being struck off GP lists for not complying. They can't go to the doctor for something else without being harassed for a smear. This is SO wrong.

The irony really is that potentially it could mean that any benefit from screening is lost elsewhere because women don't access healthcare for other reasons in a timely fashion.

It makes me ANGRY.

So don't tell me to 'don't click on the thread' because I don't like the threads.

IF THE THREADS WEREN'T THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE I WOULDN'T NEED TO CLICK ON THEM.

Its not me who needs to alter their behaviour. Its government policy, screening promotion, GPs, cancer charities and other women who do need to change their anti-woman agendas to ones which do actually support ALL women over their own self interest and their own bias.

Its sexist, unethical and potentially not even in the best interests of women as a result.

And yeah I have the evidence to back all this up. And I will continue to hammer home the point until it changes.

I had what I as told was HPV as a child, in the form of warts on my hands. Is this the "same" HPV that increases your risk of CC?

There are more than 170 different strains of HPV.

HPV16 and HPV18 are known to cause around 70% of cervical cancer cases.

HPV types 2, 27 and 57 were most frequently observed with warts, while HPV 1, 2, 63, 27 were commonly observed on clinically normal skin.

So in answer to your question. No its probably not the same strain.

My last one was awful, I cried from the discomfort (I've had stitches without anesthesia before and been fine, so I am not squeamish when it comes to pain). My cervix is tilted so it has always been "difficult" to find whenever I am examined, which I think may contribute to the pain, plus the added issue of tensing up more due to the pain, thus making it more painful.

I have just had a reminder letter and I will be going for another smear, but I am almost 39 weeks pregnant, so I can't go right away.

I do think it is misleading to say that it is painless, as unfortunately it isn't always!

So so agree with RedToothBrush.

See also - the way women are infantalised and deprioritised when pregnant and giving birth.

Thanks red - will read into the strains mentioned.

Red

THANK YOU a million times.

I click on these threads because often - thank God this one hasn't - they descend into nasty bullying of women with really traumatic histories.

I was on one a couple of years back where a woman who had been abused as a child and had vaginismus..........was called 'foolish' by a poster who claimed to be a GP because she didn't have STs.

Unbe-fucking-lievable.

I post on these threads even though they are triggering for me because I feel the need to defend women like that.

As for me, I have had the strong-arm tactics, the threats of de-registration etc etc. Eventually I wrote to NHS England and asked to be removed from the distribution list. No hassle since :)

It amazes me how much guilt and pressure is put on to women for this single test. Waaaaaaaay more than any other health issue, pretty much.

I'm afraid I cynically incline to agree with posters who smell a financial incentive here.......

Oh, and for people who don't think these threads are patronising, how would you respond if I posted this AIBU?

*AIBU to ask you all to PLEASE stop eating so much sugar???

Do you realise that eating a high-sugar diet is a massive factor in obesity and Type II diabetes? Do you know that these are leading causes of death amongst women? :( :(

Please ladies imagine not seeing your grandchildren because you died early of a heart attack or diabetes-related complication! Get down to your GP today for some healthy eating advice!! Don't put it off.*

I'd have my arse flamed off me. And yet, unhealthy lifestyles will kill many many MANY more women than cervical cancer, and are largely preventable.

But we don't see this kind of peer pressure on MN about eating biscuits and drinking wine, do we?

Women are being struck off GP lists for not complying. They can't go to the doctor for something else without being harassed for a smear. This is SO wrong.

If that happens it is certainly very wrong. Is this really what happens if women don't have smear tests though? I am very sceptical that anything happens other than constant annoying reminder letters which are computer generated and easily ignored.

Gah, fucking bold fail

Mary

Since you ask, yes. It happened to me! It's why I started feeling so passionately about smears in the first place.

My story was, I got asked to have a smear and felt unsure because I have a history of assault and trauma during intimate medical procedures. I cancelled as I wanted to go speak with my GP first before having the procedure done by the practice nurse, but my GP was off on hols for a bit.

They then sent a second letter the next month but it wasn't convenient. The letter was pretty chippy and hacked me off quite a lot. I went in to the practice and very definitely cancelled the appt.

After that, I got appointments made for me automatically by the practice and texted to my phone. I had to cancel each one. Literally, each time I cancelled, within about a week another text appointment would arrive. By this time I was - I admit childishly - so fucked off I just cancelled them as they came through.

Only, I didn't always get them, as they were just texts, and they would then put me down as DNA (did not attend). After this happened once or twice I went in and said I didn't want the test and could they remove me from the list.

The receptionist said no, every woman of my age got the reminders, and I would keep getting them no matter what, and if I didn't attend I would be removed from the practice list as a serial non-attender.

I didn't actually care that much before that experience but it made me really cynical about the motivations behind these tests.

On balance I think it is a good idea ( subject to everyone considering the possible benefits and otherwise from an informed source. ) it is however not the case that nurses always put you at your ease or are gentle. I had a horrible experience at a family planning clinic where I was subjected to rough treatment and pain and the comment was made that they didn't know how I managed to have sex at all (And I have no problems of that kind) After that I have always paid and gone private, you do get more respect that way, unfortunately.

That's outrageous RevoltingPeasant. I'm sorry that happened to you and it should absolutely not ever happen.

I don't mind a reminder because I feel in my circumstances it's worth doing. I do have a tendency to procrastinate about stuff like this. But equally I'm also a sentient, competent human being capable of making a decision and if I say no to any medical test or procedure that should the end of the matter unless by life was in grave danger where I would think an attempt to discuss the matter with me might be appropriate but I would retain the right to refuse.

Women must have autonomy over our bodies. That's non-negotiable.

The receptionist said no, every woman of my age got the reminders, and I would keep getting them no matter what, and if I didn't attend I would be removed from the practice list as a serial non-attender.

That sound very very wrong and it certainly shouldn't be happening. Did you make a formal complaint about their policy?

If that happens it is certainly very wrong. Is this really what happens if women don't have smear tests though? I am very sceptical that anything happens other than constant annoying reminder letters which are computer generated and easily ignored.

Yes it has happened to me. I never did anything about it. I deeply regret not complaining about it, but I did not feel able to at the time and I didn't think I would be either believed nor taken seriously anyway. It has taken a lot to try and restore trust I have in HCPs. I was not registered with a GP for over 4 years and found it difficult to find an alternative doctor because of the cartel type system of GPs having an area rather than patients having freedom of movement. I have severe anxiety relating to HCPs.
I am still going through this process of trying to overcome that.

Margaret McCartney who is a GP who has spoken out on this subject publically (and been quoted on this thread already). She's highly respected and her book 'The Patient Paradox' is very well respected. She is not a quack or a scaremonger. Such suggestions given the quality of her research and evidence are frankly insulting.

I have seen lots of MN posters say similar. Its not just me and RP.

The truth is that GPs get their funding based on hitting certain targets. One of these is smear tests. So if they don't hit the target they don't get as much money. So there is a conflict of interest between the GP and what the patient might want. There is a clear incentive to pressure women.

When a GP like Margaret McCartney points out she has to effectively choose between patients you can see there is a problem. She chooses to stick to ethics and respect women's choice because she thinks this is right and because she believes it has downstream benefits in other areas of care which you can't quantify in targets. Not all GPs are behaving like this.

Yet there is still this refusal to believe this is happening and a emphasis on women to somehow 'prove it'. Not the profession and government to provide evidence that cash incentives are not having unintended side effects.

It does all tie back into this idea that doctors are unquestionable and women are not to be believed and are somehow irrational.

Its sickening.

Let me stress. I am not anti-screening nor anti-HCPs. Nor do I believe Margaret McCartney is. What I am, is anti-target incentive driven care over patient centred care, promotion of health messages which are not evidence based and anti-unethical and aggressive promotion designed to emotional blackmail and scare people into receiving care.

People should be free to make their own decisions and money is better invested in health where people need it and want it. If screening is beneficial then it stands on its own merit. Not because a GP kept harassing you over it until you gave in to shut them up.

Well, after coming on here yesterday to say i dont have smear tests and dont want one I actually got given one against my will this morning. I went to a new gynocologist for my first scan for this pregnancy. She didnt have a dopplar scanner for the stomach, only a vaginal scanner. Not what I was expecting but said ok as I was already there. Got in the stirrups, laid back and felt her fumbling around down there. Suddenly felt a pain from deep inside and yelped and asked what was that.

She replied "oh i just gave you a quick smear test because you told me you havent had one yet"

Im not in the UK and the doctors here do not give a fuck about patient choice or even human rights. God, I miss the NHS.

that is out - fucking - rageous Mommawoo.... like rape.
Hope you feel OK today xx

Cervical cancer is very rare. Unnecessary treatment for abnormal cells is very high.

3000 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer each year, its not very rare in the general population.
it IS very rare in under 25s, but thats not the same thing. 'false' positive screening is also most likely in under 25s hence why the age limit is where it is. over 25 a positive result is far more likely to be something that needs monitoring.

even with a CIN3 change, monitoring is usually the first course of action to see if the cells return to normal.

not attending cervical cancer screening is one of the biggest risk factors for developing CC.

these are facts of the matter, again, if you choose not to go for screening that is entirely up to you, but do so with the correct information.

revolting i do think its disgusting to strike a woman off a list for refusing an optional test though! thats appalling to me.

I too was terrified of smears (still am!) and was motivated to go a few years ago when Jade Goody died.

Thank God I did, as my smear was abnormal and I had to have some cells removed.

I am almost phobic about smear tests, I hate them, I cry, I make it very hard for the poor nurse, but far better go through this than cancer.