To find it annoying if men try n do certain things for me, like open car doors or help with chairs

[LardLizard]

Ffs I can open the car door myself and seat down at a table without help

If men are leaping to open your car door then get yourself moving quicker and open it before they get round. It's not rocket science.

If you seat yourself at a table without fussing so much a man wouldn't have the chance to push your seat in for you.

I like holding doors open for people. I often offer to help with buggies. And I've seen men giving parking assistance to other men as well as women.

But it's all okay because I'm a woman? Ffs, get over yourself. Be a person. Be considerate. And stop reading intentions into acts that are just good manners.

I know some guys who will always hold the door and let me go first. I don't find it offensive but sometimes I think 'do they think I'm an entitled bitch if I just accept it and always go first?'. Almost as if I should say 'no, YOU go first' when they do it. But then I figure I am probably over-thinking the whole thing.

Men tend to be better at parking that women.

You can't seriously believe that?

I think it's the intention behind the gesture that counts. I refuse to believe that whilst opening doors, helping with pushchairs, pushing chairs in, offering seats on public transport etc, they are actually thinking "stupid fucking weak woman, can't even open a door without the assistance of a big, strong, superior man". No, they think they are doing a nice thing. Why waste any energy being offended?!!

A waiter pulled a chair away for me once cant say it happens to me often are you royalty with all the car door opening and chair pulling

Let just conclude that what ever the poor bastards do, they will be wrong.

ego

I wonder what tasks women are better at that they could do for men without the men asking - and that would annoy the men when they knew they could do it perfectly well.

Speech writing and similar activities. We tend to excel at writing presentations and delivering them off-cue ie Q&A sessions after the presentation.

sanity

You many not like it but science is on my side.

My ex-DH started an affair with a woman who he helped when she was struggling to park so beware! But I still love polite men and don't find it threatening at all.

Yanbu, it's benevolent sexism. And it quietly hacks me off too.

But GOD FORBID you talk about this kind of thing on Mumsnet! It makes everyone do this "no no it's unquestionably lovely" dance, "my beloved X does it so it's fine".

Have we had the tinkly laugh "if this is the most you have to worry about OP then I'm jealous!" post yet?

It's like there's this disconnect where people can't look past it to ask why the general principle of "you must be nice to women" exists, why men have had to be taught for centuries that it's polite to look after the little women, or why they don't do it for other men/women don't do it for women as a general social expectation.

If we think that women need that help or that men are uncontrollable animals without it, that's pretty sad.

And gosh no - wouldn't want to offend people with the word Feminist would we?

"Of course I'm a feminist. But not one of those ones, the crazies, you know, just the type who are accepted by men society. But even then, only if you're ok with it of course."

Men tend to be better at parking that women

Oh yeah, totally. Generally men are just much better drivers overall aren't they? That's why most road accidents are caused by MEN and insurance premiums are higher for men. Because they are superior at driving.

ego

Yes. Frequently. On Tuesday, I think.

running

Oh yeah, totally. Generally men are just much better drivers overall aren't they? That's why most road accidents are caused by MEN and insurance premiums are higher for men. Because they are superior at driving.

Insurance premiums aren't higher for men as that would be discriminatory and illegal.

Women have more "accidents" but they tend to be bumps and scrapes (the kind of thing caused by being less able parkers) but men, when they do crash, tend to d so at higher speed and their accidents result in more damage and higher costs for the insurance company.

Doesn't it suck when facts are completely against you*?

*I'd imagine

YANBU. They are things we do for a toddler. Why should a woman adopt the role of toddler because she is with a man?

An older man I used to know would propel me across roads with his hand in the small of my back. Presumably he knew I was capable of doing it unaided when I was alone but if he was there he thought I would gratefully accept his help. It used to absolutely enrage me but I was too polite to say anything

How do you think he would he react if you opened the door for him by the way?

Two men at my workplace used to refuse to walk through a door if I got there first and held it open for them. In the name of 'chivalry' they just 'couldn't' do it Nowadays I open the door and offer them to go first once. If they stand there spluttering I just walk through and leave them to it. It's ridiculous and yes, it does offend me.

I am pretty sanguine about random acts of chivalry though. Many men have been brought up this way and don't think about what they're doing or why. It's unnecessary but it will die out. However, when they insist on helping when I've politely declined said help I find it incredibly rude and patronising.

I didn't say I had a problem with people offering to help with the buggy. I said I had a problem with men (because 9/10 times it is men doing it) grabbing the other end without asking me first.

There is actually a person sat in the pram- and neither she nor me particularly like strangers grabbing at her in public.

And no, I won't "Get over myself." I don't see why I should be expected to look grateful for strange people grabbing my stuff just because they are possessors of the Almighty Peen. It's intrusive.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist

And I'm confused as to how causing more damage and higher costs means that someone is a more competent driver.

We were talking about specific aspects of driving (parking) and the statistics show men are less likely to graze a wall or the like.

Ego

So, as the flip side, you're suggesting I'm anti black gay women? Very offensive and absolutely untrue.

I'm against some people and their opinions and ideas and stupidity but it has nothing to do with their skin tone, what shape their genitals are, who they fancy or how 'able' they are.

I expect my children, regardless of gender, to stand up for older people on busses and to offer help if they notice someone who might need it. My teenage son is significantly bigger and stronger than my teenage daughter, so there are more circumstances where he can offer physical help than where she can. Once again, not to do with gender.

Interestingly, last time we were watching The Voice, ds noticed that Ricky Wilson always leaped up to offer female contestants a hand down the steps, and not the men. I pointed out that Ricky was wearing trainers, and the contestants were nervous and wearing 6 inch heels so offering a hand was a thoughtful thing to do, not a sexist one. Circumstances, not gender.

Yy Ann. I've frequently opened the door or stood aside and men have refused to walk through.

This isn't some weird sort of test on my part and I swear to you I'm a nice person who gets on with everyone at work at least I'm 99% sure so I'm not the office arsehole either. I'll always grin and be nice.

But there's just a teeny tiny rebel in my brain that watches in wonder as blokes become uncomfortable because the unspoken power dynamics are ever so slightly tilted against them. They honestly don't know how to handle it.

If you want to be "what about the men" about it all - why should there be a system that trains them to squirm when a woman does something too?

I'm sure loads of people would disagree with me on all of this stuff, but that's kind of what internalised misogyny does, and it's not anyone's fault or an evil conspiracy or anything. You just don't know you're doing it 99% of the time, whether you're a man or a woman.

Someone is always offended by something these days....

Its just manners OP.

"Someone is always offended by something these days.... hmm

Its just manners OP."

They aren't, you know!

There's lots of interesting stuff on this thread if you feel like giving it a read.