To think that smoking in a cafe garden is selfish?

[cupkakesandkittens]

I was in a cafe for lunch earlier, beautiful weather so sat in the garden at the back to eat, and there were a few people smoking as they ate/drank.
I understand that it's an outdoor space, and it's legal, but to smoke in such close proximity to other people who are enjoying a meal, is just selfish.
I also understand that I could have sat inside, but I didn't want to sit inside on such a nice day.
It just really irritates me, can they not last 30 mins or an hour without a fag?

Thank you fat. Can you honestly not see how potentially damaging and hurtful some of your comments are? You are thinking about your own feelings of outrage and disgust, you are not thinking of the anguish faced daily, hourly by the people caught up in the smoking trap, how dangerous it is and how difficult it is to break free, encouragement and support is what is needed not castigation and contempt.
Kali thank you I am so sorry too.

Rick I guess it is just my problem. Can you honestly say you don't feel a little bit angry at being put through hell and seeing someone you love go through hell too? You don't need to answer that, I'm just putting it there. I'm really sorry if you and others find my views offensive. They are a product of my experiences. Maybe I should just rage at the unfairness of it all, blame fate, God, karma, bad luck, BAT or anything other than the person who did the actual self poisoning. Maybe that is ultimately better for everyone. It really is such a personal thing though isn't it. Some people pour their grief into research and improving the public perception of smokers (pubes perhaps - though I'm sure that is a massive oversimplification), others deal with it by lashing out at people like me who are brutally outspoken (too much so they may think) against smoking.

Rick, I don't disagree that smokers need support and help. It's the unapologetic ones who brag about smoking in public places to the detriment of others and who don't give a shit about anyone except their own habit and freedom that really get and deserve my contempt. If you read many many of the early posts on this thread you will see exactly what I mean. When I criticised them as being selfish fuckers, I was met with bullying replies. I then tried to explain where I was coming from and got a bit aerated and defensive esp when the pity arguments began

Anyway, please accept my apologies for any offence caused. Cancer is such an emotive subject and I just wish nobody had to have it. I still don't understand why people take such massive risks by smoking, but I know addiction is hard to beat, if you want and decide to. I stand by my views but I realise they may not be shared by some and that I might have been a bit passionate about how I expressed them.

please accept my apologies for any offence caused.

If you had posted just this I'd have had a lot of respect for you. What a shame you couldn't resist wrapping it up in a load of stuff about 'standing by your views', 'pity arguments' and reiterations of 'selfish fuckers' who 'deserve your contempt'. All with a nice side-order of bullying accusations.

You can report any posts you feel are breaking talk guidelines. You can also report any of your own posts that you regret and ask MNHQ to remove them. It's at their discretion but IME they usually oblige if you say 'oops, I think I went a bit "beyond the pale" here'.

Some people pour their grief into research and improving the public perception of smokers (pubes perhaps - though I'm sure that is a massive oversimplification)

Yes that is a massive oversimplification. If you want to know where I'm coming from you could go back and actually read my posts. Incidentally, my posts on smoking threads don't stem from grief (although I've had plenty of that). They stem from becoming a vaper and realising lots of people treat me just as shittily as they did when I smoked, for no logical reason at all. So I started looking into:

• where the contempt for smokers comes from in the first place

I discovered it has been largely deliberately manufactured by public health

• what its purpose is

To shame smokers into quitting

• whether it works as a policy

Not really, no. It tends to cause smokers to either lose their sense of self-worth and self belief, or sometimes to develop a big, defensive 'fuck you' attitude (you know, like those smokers who you feel deserve your contempt). Neither mindset is helpful for people trying to quit.

So you could just stop it. That would be really helpful. Especially you could stop it towards your poor relatives who are unwell. Maybe help make the time they have left just a little bit less shit.

I still don't understand why people take such massive risks by smoking

Mostly because they became addicted as children. You'd know this if you'd read my posts.

Thank you Rick

for you and kali, fat and everyone else who has lost people they love to smoking.

Cigarette butts and ash make me feel physically sick (throw back from an incident as a teen).
I would love to sit outside in a pub garden but rarely can. Some pubs do have no smoking areas outside - maybe all should do this?

I am a smoker and I obey all laws regarding smoking, I do not smoke in public enclosed spaces, I do not smoke in my car, I smoke where it is legal.
If I am out having a meal or enjoying a drink something even us smokers are entitled to and if I am a paying customer following the rules of the law I can enjoy a cigarette when I am out doing this. As a smoker there are not many places we can smoke but if we want to we have to go where it is allowed if it is that upsetting to people perhaps you shouldn't go to places where people are smoking.
It's swings and roundabouts I don't complain about non smokers having the right to sit where they wish so I do feel yabu to expect smokers to not smoke if they wish where it is legal.

Sorry just another thing do any of those that object with smokers have friends who smoke? How do you deal with this?

slg only one friend now still smokes. Not all the time, but still does it.
She goes outside to smoke, even when im round at hers as she knows i hate the smell and i have asthma.
I've never asked her too. I don't treat her with contempt.
She's my mate. I may not like her smoking, but it's her life.
If she got ill i'd support her the same way as i would my non smoking friends.

What I am trying to get at is just that we as individuals choose to smoke it does not make us selfish. We have 1 room in our home where smoking is permitted but we will not smoke in our own home should my children have friends round or if we have people round that do not smoke. This is something we do out of consideration for others. Oh and if we are out with friends who do not smoke we will walk away whilst we smoke so not to bother them.
We are not selfish we may have a bad habit but it is unfair to us to be penalised and then slandered because we smoke.

slg i agree! A member of my dh smokes. He doesn't go in other rooms.
That's just them though! Nothing to do with being a smoker.

Oh expat I can't let that one go.

"fat comes on all these threads and is continually vile on every one of them."

Really?

"All these threads"? - what threads, how many, during what time period? ALL?

"Continually vile"? Gee thanks. I've never ever been kind, supportive or helpful? Always just vile. Of course

"On every one of them"? See above.

Unless I have forgotten something, I have been passionately frank and expressive about my views not vile about:

1. Selfish inconsiderate smokers
2. Selfish inconsiderate parkers

And only in response to people posting about vile, selfish people.

Your statement is a massive slander, hyperbolic, crass and insulting.

This thread just needs to end now. It has become a personal fatandold bashing.

fat i'm not going to say you have been vile on every thread as i do not know, but on this one you have been.
When people have told you that you were being offensive you carried on.
I really hope you do not say the things you have sAid on here, to terminally ill people as that would be the last thing they need.
It doesn't matter if people smoke and get cancer they still do not deserve cancer.
Noone deserves cancer, ever.

I'm going to stick up for fat here in one respect - I AS'd her yesterday () and she appears to be a fairly new poster (or a NC, obviously). She's only been on this thread and the one about the sad wanker with the fan (in terms of smoking threads).

Your posts on this thread have been really nasty though, fat, and you're still doing it. Your post on the fan thread was also a bit wankerish. I typed and deleted a few responses. It's a shame because some of them were quite humorous.

Your statement is a massive slander, hyperbolic, crass and insulting.

Hyperbolic, eh? I think expat made a simple mistake. There are a handful of posters on MN who miss no opportunity to stick the boot in to smokers and after a while you all start to sound the same. I wouldn't mind betting that if you stick around for a few months her post will be entirely accurate. But that's up to you, isn't it?

If you want people to stop 'bashing' you, the easiest way is to stop posting nasty shit. You can hide threads you've had enough of - link at the top of the page. You can also name change and have a fresh start if it's all got a bit much.

Oh dear it's still going on. And on.

Kali I never ever said anyone "deserves" cancer. And I never would. Stop twisting my words into something they were not. That is a despicable thing to accuse me of. I may have been flippant, earnest, honest, and a bit frank, all at different times, but to misrepresent my words, again, and in that way, is very vile.

And pubes - patronising much?

fat - she thinks that as a new poster (she stalked you to find that out) it's her right to bully you.
An old, and not very pleasant MN trait.

Classic! People point out that they find a poster's comments offensive and nasty. Poster comes back and claims he/she is being slandered, insulted, bullied, etc. The whole thread is a giant me-rail, it needs to end because it's all about me, me, me and how ill-treated I am being! It's as common as muck.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Redbindippers101 bully? Please.
Fat has been so offensive towards people who have cancer and people who have lost family/friends to it.
Her posts have all been offensive and aggressive.
She needs to think before she posts.

*cunting selfish ways. And stop gloating about how far you don't give a rat's arse.

You talk of sanctimony, pearls and high horses. Look in the mirror. Then go and give yourself more cancer, but don't expect me not to complain when your actions give it to me or my kids. The right to not be poisoned trumps any "right" to smoke.

Lazy selfish fuckers (in case I hadn't mentioned that already*

I don't give two shits about people harming their own health except for me paying for their nhs treatment, but they don't need to harm others' health with such gay abandon. Common decency is all that is required.

I refuse to consider smokers as innocent victims gripped by a horrible addiction outside of their control. It's self inflicted! There is plenty of help out there to quit.

No no fat you didn't tell people to get cancer did you?
You may not have said they deserve it, but it spills from your posts!

If you really can't see how offensive these ( just ones i could copy and paste)!) Are then there really is no helping you.

Well said Kali.
Read the thread redbindi.