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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that smoking in a cafe garden is selfish?

494 replies

cupkakesandkittens · 06/06/2016 17:38

I was in a cafe for lunch earlier, beautiful weather so sat in the garden at the back to eat, and there were a few people smoking as they ate/drank.
I understand that it's an outdoor space, and it's legal, but to smoke in such close proximity to other people who are enjoying a meal, is just selfish.
I also understand that I could have sat inside, but I didn't want to sit inside on such a nice day.
It just really irritates me, can they not last 30 mins or an hour without a fag?

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 12/06/2016 22:34

PlentyOfPubeGardens

Is that really the best argument that you have got?

It is clear that you have no other points to make so are "playing the man and not the ball" so to speak.

Yes, lets have a thread all about how smokers are the victims and we should all be naice to them.

I do agree with some of your points but some of them to quote your phrase are "bollox".

fatandold · 13/06/2016 01:27

Just quoting Kali. Phone messing about.

I never wished anyone cancer . What a nasty malicious misquote of me. Call me "vile"!! Hmm

I think you'll see that I said smokers are giving themselves and others cancer. Believe me, cancer is not something I would wish on my worst enemy.

And pubes good luck with the smoker pity party. I refuse to consider smokers as innocent victims gripped by a horrible addiction outside of their control. It's self inflicted! There is plenty of help out there to quit.

I'm not a smoker hater. I do hate selfish lazy inconsiderate rude bastardy though. Some of whom are smokers who poison others with their secondary smoke, and some are evil gits who park in P and C parking spaces, but that is another thread !

fatandold · 13/06/2016 01:31

This is the missing quote bloody phone
Kali
"I't's funny that a poster stated the smokers were aggressive, yet the only person who has been aggressive and ugly is fat 
Telling people to get cancer?
Vile vile person.
coming from a none smoker.
Iet's hope you don't say thesethings to the wrong people oneday!"

Sounds like a threat to me Hmm Confused

BTW I can take "aggressive", but "ugly"?? Now come on. I could be gorgeous for all you know Wink

pineappleshortbread · 13/06/2016 02:58

I wont smoke around children or others eating but if peoplw sit next to me whilst im smoking that is there problem not mine.

On the break side I work in healthcare and on nights we get an hour and a half breaks. I do not take my break and take regular cigarette breaks. I am away from the ward less than the rest of the staff. Also they take extra by eating their food in the office or just sitting on their phones in the office. I eat at the nurses station and try not to take the piss.

Not all us smokers take extra breaks and are inconsiderate

fatandold · 13/06/2016 09:05

pineapple I wonder if your patients notice the smell of cigarettes on your clothes and breath when you come back from your fag breaks?

I certainly would. Nothing more unpleasant than someone breathing that shit over you after just having a cigarette. Healthcare and restaurant staff are the most noticeable as they lean over you in close proximity. Make me feel nauseous.

Whinyleonard · 13/06/2016 10:35

I'm sorry, I bemoan the days of smoking in pubs and clubs and have a fond memory of proper smoking but even I can't bear the stink of fags on peoples fingers and hair. If a nurse stank of fags I would complain.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 13/06/2016 12:07

fatandold - I never wished anyone cancer . What a nasty malicious misquote of me. Call me "vile"!! Hmm

Yes you did, here:

fatandold Tue 07-Jun-16 14:02:01

Look in the mirror. Then go and give yourself more cancer, but don't expect me not to complain when your actions give it to me or my kids.

I've never met you so don't know if you're a vile person but that whole post was vile.

And pubes good luck with the smoker pity party. I refuse to consider smokers as innocent victims gripped by a horrible addiction outside of their control. It's self inflicted! There is plenty of help out there to quit.

Yes, there is plenty of help but it has about 91% failure rate long term.It's still worthwhile going for help if you're a smoker trying to quit because without help, the long-term failure rate is 96-97%.

More 'fun facts' ...

From ASH - Young people and smoking:

It is estimated that each year around 207,000 children in the UK start smoking. Among adult smokers, about two-thirds report that they took up smoking before the age of 18 and over 80% before the age of 20. The 2011 General Lifestyle Survey of adult smokers revealed that almost two-fifths (40%) had started smoking regularly before the age of 16.

Among children who try smoking it is estimated that between one third and one half are likely to become regular smokers within two to three years.

The younger the age of uptake of smoking, the greater the harm is likely to be because early uptake is associated with subsequent heavier smoking, higher levels of dependency, a lower chance of quitting, and higher mortality.

Children who experiment with cigarettes can quickly become addicted to the nicotine in tobacco. Children may show signs of addiction within four weeks of starting to smoke and before they commence daily smoking. One US study found that smoking just one cigarette in early childhood doubled the chance of a teenager becoming a regular smoker by the age of 17 and a London study suggests that smoking a single cigarette is a risk indicator for children to become regular smokers up to three years later.

From ASH - Nicotine and addiction:

Possibly one of the strongest indicators of the effect of nicotine inhaled through tobacco smoke is the discrepancy between the desire to quit and quitting success rates. Surveys consistently show that the majority of smokers (around two-thirds) want to stop smoking yet the successful quit rate remains very low.

The power of addiction is further demonstrated by the fact that some smokers are unable to stop smoking even after undergoing surgery for smoking-related illnesses. One study found that around forty per cent of those who had a laryngectomy resumed smoking soon after surgery, while about 50 per cent of lung cancer patients resumed smoking after undergoing surgery. Among smokers who have had a heart attack, as many as 70% take up smoking again within a year. More recent studies confirm the difficulties faced by smokers in quitting even following the diagnosis of a life threatening illness.

The 'utterly selfish cuntish fuckers' eh? Hmm

I'm not interested in a 'pity party'. As I said previously, I'm just interested in what works because there are currently 100,000 preventable deaths each year in the UK from smoking. A nice side-effect of helping more people to successfully quit is that fewer non-smokers would be bothered by smokers so often, so we should really be on the same 'side' here. I think some people simply haven't grasped the seriousness and scale of the problem, so they see their personal annoyance at smokers as the main issue.

fatandold · 13/06/2016 18:08

I said "more" because they are already doing it. By choice. Not by chance or by my wishes. But by their own actions. Every day. I have nursed two relatives through this. It's ugly, devastating and shatters families. And it's so avoidable.

You can cite whatever studies you like, but it's like a stuck record. Smokers make informed choices, and they, their families and loved ones, and quite often those innocent people standing next to them, also suffer.

I cannot fathom this "oh the poor dear smokers, it's not their fault" mindset. They have none of my sympathy. At all. Ever. My support to give up, if they so choose, yes, every time. I know many who have done it successfully. With the right help and motivation. I also know some who refuse to, even after surviving cance, because "they enjoy it", irrespective of what they put their loved ones through in nearly losing them. Yes, absolutely selfish cunting fuckers.

If that offends, then go visit a hospital cancer unit and speak to the relatives by the bedsides. They will, bar none, give their right arm to go back in time and tell their relative how horrible the future will be if they don't give up now.

pineappleshortbread · 13/06/2016 18:24

My job is stressful so a cig is needed especially when you have some patients who are rude and aggressive. Plus I work nights so I only really see my patients twice as an auxiliary. Lots of nurses smoke.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 13/06/2016 19:21

If that offends, then go visit a hospital cancer unit and speak to the relatives by the bedsides. They will, bar none, give their right arm to go back in time and tell their relative how horrible the future will be if they don't give up now.

Too right that offends Angry Fucking hell!

I've been on MN ~ 6 years but I don't think I've ever read something on here that has made me so angry. I have been that relative at the bedside on the cancer unit three times so far and have lost other relatives to COPD and heart disease. I'm currently worried sick because 49 y/o DSis couldn't blow out the candles on her 3 y/o GDD's birthday cake.

How fucking dare you suggest that all my lost loved ones needed was a relative to tell them 'how horrible the future will be if they don't give up now'. How fucking dare you suggest that's all my DSis needs now.

My support to give up, if they so choose, yes, every time.
Best you don't. Seriously.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 13/06/2016 19:39

You know when kali said Let's hope you don't say these things to the wrong people one day! ? That wasn't a threat - that was a plea to be a bit more diplomatic (Kali can correct me if I'm wrong).

If you say those sorts of things to someone who has recently lost a loved one to smoking, or who has a smoking-related disease themselves, you risk coming across as an ignorant offensive arsehole.

kali110 · 14/06/2016 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

kali110 · 14/06/2016 13:01

fat you could be stunning on the outside but it doesn't change what's on the inside.

fatandold · 14/06/2016 23:29

pubes you have totally misread and misunderstood me. I didn't say that all your Dsis or any smoker in hospital needs is for a relative to tell them how bad it will be. I said that the relatives would wish that they could do so. Can you tell me that you wouldn't give your right arm (expression obviously) to get in a time machine and try and persuade your family members not to smoke at the time they started?

Irony with my family is, they probably would have been bloody minded enough to ignore me anyway. They do now, even after cancer has struck.

My sentiments (and yes Kali I do indeed have empathy having been there myself), is with the relatives who are going through hell seeing their loved ones suffer and in losing their loved ones. How does that not seem clear from my words? And thanks for calling me vile.

I'm genuinely sorry for your experiences pubes and my heart goes out to you. You didn't choose to suffer the smoking related illness of others, and it's inevitable if you are close that you'll suffer alongside them. It's a fact that cancer affects not just the actual patient but their friends and families too. This is what I am talking about. This is avoidable.

I don't mean to upset you, and I'm not aiming my comments at your personal circumstances (of which I was unaware anyway). I would think that someone in your position would not be so apologist about smoking, but that is up to you. Perhaps you are more compassionate than me. Maybe I am still angry at my experiences and as a result feel that the decision to smoke ( and ergo to likely suffer the worst sort of health effects) is selfish.

I see cigarettes and the companies that make them as a complete scourge. I wish fewer people took up smoking and more people gave up smoking. I saw two girls in school uniform this morning puffing away and it took all my self control not to confront them. What stupid stupid kids. Breaks my heart.

SmellyTelly · 15/06/2016 00:02

YANBU because I dont smoke and I was outside a restaurant eating and the women behind me were smoking which was blowing directly to us but then again where else will they go? as someone else said it isnt illegal either as inside is.

kali110 · 15/06/2016 01:30

fat if you had an ounce of empathy or decency you wouldn't have written some of your posts.
There are people on here suffering or have lost people to cancer and your posts have been vile and offensive.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 15/06/2016 07:19

Your posts have been perfectly clear, fat. There has been no misunderstanding.

fatandold · 15/06/2016 18:49

Kali SO HAVE I. have you not read my posts? I am mega anti smoking BECAUSE I have nursed and lost family members to smoking related cancer. FFS.

Why are some people so keen to get the last word in?

I have made myself clear Kali and pubes. I cannot fathom how you continue to deliberately misunderstand me and call me "vile".

Those being selfish and inconsiderate with their choices are vile. Not me.

I like the other current smoking thread better. More sensible views and less nastiness towards anti smoking attitudes.

Please stay away from that one with your bullying. But you probably won't.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 15/06/2016 20:09

Irony with my family is, they probably would have been bloody minded enough to ignore me anyway. They do now, even after cancer has struck.

Please tell me you are not still harranguing your relatives about smoking after they've had a cancer diagnosis.

kali110 · 15/06/2016 20:55

fat yes i have read your posts.
I too have lost relatives too cancer, no doubt bought on by smoking.
I too helped nurse a fucking parent.
Your posts are vile and offensive still.
I really hope you haven't been giving your biews to the people dying/fighting cancer.
Really can't help you if you can't see how offensive and nasty your posts are.
Oh and i'm not a smoker.
I hate smoking but your pots are horrible.

RickOShay · 15/06/2016 21:54

Fat it seems that you are so high on your moral cloud that you can't see how upsetting your words are.
My mother died of lung cancer. She smoked and so did I and my sister. She died twenty years ago. After many many many failed attempts my sister and I finally managed to stop smoking for good about three years ago. We both now vape. My mother still smoked AFTER her LUNG cancer diagnosis, it took her two years to die, while my sister and I looked after her. Still feel the need to judge?

RickOShay · 15/06/2016 21:59

And I am very grateful to plentyofpubegardens for her intelligent understanding of nicotine addiction, and her unfailing kindness and patience in busting many of the myths and awful attitudes surrounding smoking,.

kali110 · 15/06/2016 22:52

RickOShay so sorry to you Flowers
I lost my dparent only a few years ago too. I'm still heartbroken.
I really can't fathom how fat cannot see how offensive her comments are.
I detest smoking but i would never say Some of the things posted Sad

fatandold · 15/06/2016 22:52

Rick, pubes and Kali - I suspect your questions are rhetorical. If not, then my answers will no doubt fuel your hatred of me.

Well done for judging me. And calling me judgmental!

Why is this thread still going?

fatandold · 15/06/2016 22:55

Oh and I meant to add that I'm sorry to hear of your respective losses. That's not sarcastic. I know how devastating that is.

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