Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

I had to get a taxi the other day because 4 buses went past with buggies in the wheelchair spot - one woman offered to collapse it down and the bus driver just shut his doors and drove off. There are some drivers who just see disabled people as an inconvenience. Yes either can use the space but it's sodding hard work when you've very limited mobility to move yourself out of your chair and into a seat then fold the chair up. Some can't even self transfer and require hoists to get in and out of the chair.

Firstly, I'd like to say thank you OP for attempting to help the wheelchair user. They may have wanted to get on the bus, but said they were happy to wait as all the other times they have had to battle to get on, they just couldnt face it this time.
My daughter was at uni in Bristol and had to use the bus to get from her halls to the campus. The amount of times the bus would drive past and not pick her up, or not let her on as there was a buggy in the space already, or couldn't let her on as they couldn't operate the ramp etc etc etc. She uses a wheelchair due to having a chronic pain condition, and physically cannot walk any distance.
I've had this argument with an online friend who think it is unreasonable for them to have to fold their pushchair and hold their child, so the wheelchair user can get on a bus!
The problem is there aren't clear rules so that everyone knows that wheelchair users should have priority.
The other problem is buses should have a bigger space for both wheelchairs and pushchairs and to allow more than one of either on them.

I work with a man who is in a wheelchair and he's constantly getting into arguments in bus queues over this. He regularly gets told to wait for the next bus by drivers because of buggies and gets blank looks when he says he can't becasue he'll be late for work. Like it's inconceivable that someone in a wheelchair might actually have some place to be like work.

I think the driver was wrong, I think they do what makes their lives easy. They could have asked the parents to fold their buggy but didn't want to. As a buggy user I have experienced situs when a driver says no room as there are already buggies on the bus - I say that I can fold my buggy and they say still say no! I probably should have complained. Sometimes if the baby is sleeping it's easier to wait for another bus but if the baby is awake and ive been waiting a while it's annoying.

I would add though that it can be an arse to fold a buggy if kid sleepy and you have loads of bags, and another kid with you and you are alone. Not saying you shouldn't ha e to accommodate others at all, but that sometimes you need help. I have had to do this once or twice and have asked for help and on one occasion the passengers and driver were not very helpful at all - in fact driver drove off when I was still holding a baby & 2 bags and I nearly went flying. Another time the driver was great and helped me fold the buggy while I held the baby to let a wheelchair on. I know some people will say that they always fold their buggy when boarding a bus but to be honest I don't believe they use public transport often- I don't have a car so often have shopping and a sleeping baby so if I can get away with keeping the buggy unfolded I do.

Is this a London problem? I have been on buses in my town for years and have yet to see a wheelchair user waiting to use a bus or on a bus.
Have seen some buggies on buses and the buses have low entry.platforms but no wheelchair users.

But disabled people don't work do they?

I received a disabled bus but couldn't use it before 09:30. Dead helpful for someone who starts work at 08:00.

going by some of the posts on here I can see why. I would never take my adult child on a bus, the idea of explaining to them why someone would not let them on the bus, would be too hard.

If buses have no ramp then your not going get wheelchair users on it. Low level may help those who can do small step I can do about 2 cm at force at a joilt that hurts everything. Certainly coulnt get on a low bus

Havent read full thread but the Doug Paulley case found that wheelchair users do have priority BUT bus drivers are not legally obliged to make people move out of the space. So they should ask but bus drivers are not breaking the law if ultimately the person refuses to move. The case is being heard at the supreme court on 15th June. Transport for London rules stipulate that bus drivers must press the audio announcement requesting people move out of the wheelchair space. If they dont do that and just tell tge wheelchair user they cannot get on, they are breaking tfl rules.

I know some people will say that they always fold their buggy when boarding a bus but to be honest I don't believe they use public transport often

I. used to get over 50 buses a week.

collapsed my buggy whenever I had to alternating between handing baby/stuff to passengers or even the driver. sitting toddler in the luggage space and he'll, using reins to tie my child to the only seat available.

sone buses were more like coaches or were the old fashioned ones with steps ...

In Edinburgh wheelchair users absolutely have priority on buses so if someone needs the space you must fold your buggy or get off and wait for the next bus. The newest buses have space for a wheelchair and one unfolded buggy.

Please report the driver. The wheelchair user was probably too fed up with it happening and getting abuse if they asked for the buggy to be folded to ask themselves.

I am a wheelchair user in London and the rules are wheelchair users have priority and buggys need to move out of the space/fold when a wheelchair user needs the space. I am constantly having to complain after getting mouthfuls of abuse/threatened for asking to access the wheelchair space and being left at the bus stop for 3-4 buses in a row due to buggys. It got so bad on my local route that I went over TFL to the bus co head office and not once since have I had a problem as the drivers see me at the bus stop and tell the buggys to move before they even pull up. It got so bad at one point as I saw the bus pulling up my heart would sink in case there was a buggy on it and I took to noting the driver no just in case I was refused access.

As for a wheelchair user getting out and folding the chair for a buggy I have no words for how I feel about that, I can understand if it's for another wheelchair user and doesn't cause and extra pain but no way for a buggy. My chair is electric and doesn't fold so luckily no one has told me to do that yet.

To those who think that the OP is being unreasonable, please read the thread on here about being a second class member of society. Yes please complain OP. For the sake of the next wheelchair user and the next and the next. Of course wheelchairs have priority. It's a no brainer.

It literally says, on the bus, "wheelchair space, if this space is not required for a wheelchair user then it may be used by pushchairs"
Or words to that affect.

Pushchairs collapse
Luggage is just that, luggage. There's a rack for it.

I understand the message in the bus. It's clear and I've always got off when a wheelchair user has been at the next stop. It's frustrating for everyone at the time- the driver, the wheelchair user and the pram pusher as you've got to untangle yourselves .I've seen tempers get frayed. Hard situation - at one point had double buggy with two babies and a broken limb... That wasn't much fun!!!
I think wheelchair is one thing- you get it- the " rules" state that a buggy gives way. It's when you get a war going on with the prams that I get fed up . You know when parents/ nannies start racing to which door they're attempting to board with their Pram?? That's when I think ffs- we re in same situation- let's have a bit of decency here!!!!

Kp86. Please read recent post called feeling like a second class citizen.

IMO Should someone collapse a pushchair? Yes. Should a person move to another seat if one is available? Yes.
Should a person have to get off the bus completely to make room for a person in a wheelchair? No.

Just because a person is disabled does not mean they should not have to wait and make someone else wait instead. I don't believe anyone enjoys public transport and if they could get around another way then they probably would!

To be honest the problem really is why is there only one or possibility two spaces for wheelchairs and Prams anyway? Surely three or four is more appropriate.

LouBou on a single decker bus there are at least fifty seats plus standing space and room for luggage, including folded buggies. There is one space that a wheelchair user can use, which is why it's reserved for them. If someone is using that reserved space then yes, they should get off as they are much more likely to be able to get a seat/standing space/luggage space on another bus.

Look at it this way, they were fortunate to use that space while it wasn't needed by the person it was designated for.

Why can't someone help you with your newborn twins? Also, how long will you twins be small for? I'll be disabled forever. Also, it's a wheelchair space. It wouldn't be there if weren't for disability campaigners like me. I'd hold a baby or two for you while you folded if it made it your life easier cause I'm not a knob.

Apologies LouBlue, I managed to make a mess of your username.

I had this once. 8 week old baby and 16 month old toddler in a side by side buggy. Driver told me to fold buggy to allow wheelchair on but it wasn't physically possible. I asked for my money back to get off, then get on the next bus, but he refused so I said I wasn't getting off then. I'd waited an hour for the bus, letting ones pass when there was no space for us, and never had any more money as had been food shopping, bags were underneath the buggy, baby was due a feed and toddler was fighting her sleep. I was about halfway Home. Surprisingly the people on the bus were sticking up for me. We were stalled at the bus stop for about 15 mins in a standoff until another bus pulled up and the wheelchair user got on that.

Sometimes allowances should be made. I had no choice and although I'm not physically disabled I was in a position where I couldn't physically do what was asked of me safely. I stick by that I was in the right

theydidit read the second class member of society thread. Might open your eyes a bit. You can fold a double buggy. Ok it's not easy and Twins is always a handful but I bet someone would help you. It can be done. But someone in an electric chair can't fold it. Can you see why trying to compare is like comparing oranges and bricks. The space is only there because disabled people fought for it and legally won it. It's theirs. You borrow it.