Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

can we have a picnic?

Sure thing. I have a dead horse I flogged earlier.

im sure fanjo has chocolate

Hazeyjane the example you gave about the school trip you gave is despicable!
My son has 2 twin children in his class, both with cerebral palsy, one in a wheelchair and one who uses a walking aid, and I have heard one parent remark that it's 'not fair' that they get free transport to school whilst she has to walk nearly a mile.

As a parent, I think it's really hard to put the needs of another child before the needs of your own. It's engrained in our human nature. For example, The choice between either your child soiling themselves or someone elses child soiling themselves, you'd have sympathy but you'd choose to help your own. If it were 2 starving children you'd split what you had, but sometimes it's not as easy as that.
This thread has been an eye opener to me and given me a lot to think about.

Sadly I dont have chocolate. Except some moo free stuff for DD. Which pag could have too.

Some parent with a victim complex I'll gladly give my flowers to.

In return for access to facilities provided for people like me and them not being hijacked by parents.

God, this thread is depressing. I do think it's a good point that if able bodied parents campaigned for separate baby change facilities it may help not only raise awareness but also reduce the "them and us" arguments we keep hearing ("You want separate cubicles you campaign for them!").

Not optimistic about that happening though

I'm not in a wheelchair, neither is my dd (yet, hopefully won't come to that but it's a possibility). We both have conditions that affect our mobility but which are invisible at the moment.

I've a TINY insight into wheelchair user issues as someone who has cm/nannied disabled kids and cared for disabled adults.

But you know what? It's not rocket science! It's simple common sense combined with being a halfway decent person.

A pp said IN THE SAME POST

'There's no room for a separate parents loo/changing/bf room'

'There's half a shop floor of large baby products and several aisles of formula etc'

Call me mad!

1 they could SLIGHTLY reduce the amount of floor space used for selling to accommodate the customers buying these products

2 as I said WAY up thread, most public loos DO have space for a double cubicle that would allow space for a buggy inside and door to close, and baby changing tables could fit in the main sink area.

Again NOT ROCKET SCIENCE

And yes I think there are certain posters being particularly manipulative in posting in order to try and get thread deleted. I HOPE MNHQ see through this and at the very least delete their posts.

I actually think political tides in recent years have helped change views towards the disabled for the worst, that and the endless bloody benefit programmes.

I try not to be, but one of the my illnesses mean I don't always behave appropriately in public, I'm not aware of it , get increasingly forgetful and not always aware of those around me. I have it under control most of the time but there are instances in between. Few and far between thankfully. I recently got a right bollocking off a bus driver for doing something I didn't even think would upset other passengers. (long story and too identifying). I can't get PIP, which would help me and my DS immensely, or a BB because despite that being one of my many and complicated illnesses, I'm not disabled enough to need either, I'm also too young to have half these illnesses despite one being with me since I was a baby .
Or my Gran, who is 80yo. Has had two knee replacements. Had a BB for years but recently had it taken off her. Because she's not severe enough either. This was despite the fact she couldn't even go out for six months afterwards without anyone as she was in horrendous pain.

Neither my Gran or I would use public transport but we don't have a choice. Oh and my Dad also had his BB took off him too despite him suffering a heart attack and having bad COPD.

I didn't start an AIBU about the bus driver, because I knew I was BU, I didn't write a complaint in that he should have been more aware of passengers with hidden disabilities, I simply apologised to him and sulked for the rest of the day got over it.

Imagine a world where people admit they made a mistake and owned it...

thevillage. I don't have personal experience of needing a wheelchair or disabled facilities. And it didn't take meeting the people I know who need them to explain nicely that disabled facilities weren't there for my convenience, and were for those who genuinely need them. Basic common sense and consideration should be enough knowledge to act like a decent human.

Precisely Lurked

Don't be silly, Lurked. Being a mummy exempts you from common consideration

The problem with campaigning for buggy spaces is that buggy use for each individual is so transient, so everybody has a rant and then forgets because baby has grown and is walking.
snow Keep applying for PiP. I too have been turned down, apparently I can manage fine, despite the fact that (for example) I shit myself four times on Friday. No warning, just happens. If I ever win, I'll be spending it on knickers! I don't look disabled, but I have psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, ulcerative colitis, ehlers danlos, and Asperger's Syndrome. Still got turned down. Gits!

I must be honest I'm getting a bit put off now. There is so much nastiness here.... No doubt more will follow so I'm off. Good luck with your various campaigns.

Lurked exactly.

Dawn that's awful.

Oh dear. Another one who thinks fighting for basic human rights is nastiness.

I expect you're bored too.

it is odd that the 2 most vocal posters are now bored
maybe cos the winding up didn't work as planned

In the many cases they could provide those facilities in a normal toilet, and many do by having fold-down tables

I prefer to change my baby's nappy in a private cubicle. Not next to the communal sinks (where people are pushing past, it's noisy and he feels vulnerable). Also it's unpleasant for others to see a baby's dirty nappy changed in full view. I suspect that's why most baby changing tables are in a private room (the disabled toilet). Mums also need to use the loo. I'd rather wee while he is safely strapped into his pram. Not balanced on my lap or crawling under the loo door!

My local shopping centre has 4 'parent-child' loos (2 toilets and a baby changing table in each). There are also 2 radar-key loos for disabled people. Are you saying the parent-child loos should be abolished and turned into radar-key loos?

I'm sorry if you feel you can't wait. But others may also be desperate to use the accessible toilet for whatever reason. People may have hidden disabilities.

If there's a fold-down table next to the sinks AND a changing table in the disabled loo I will use the latter, because it's clearly a multipurpose room. I prefer to change my baby in private. He is my priority, not the possibility that someone else may want instant access during the 5mins it takes to change him.

Instant access to a loo is never guaranteed. Would you berate an able-bodied person leaving a disabled loo? What if their disability was not obvious?

I am not the one making it 'us and them'. I am saying that accessible facilities need to be shared.

I also see no problem with mums using the wheelchair space on a bus, if it's free. They will move if a wheelchair user gets on. Why shouldn't they make use of an empty space?

dawndonna, I didn't realise I could apply for PiP for ehlers-danos. I'm having to take the decision to downsize my business from September (self-employed childminder) and no longer take on EYFS children because the extra work (compared to days where I am 'only' looking after my own DC) is killing my joints and leaving me so fatigued that I can literally sleep for 18 hours straight. Then there's day to day bits, like my kneecap popping out after a driving lesson - one extra reason to hate the clutch! Or dislocating my elbow carrying a shopping basket. My secret fear is that one day I'll dislocate my neck.

Do you just ring up for the forms? I'm going to have a Google.

Sorry for the derail.

My dd and I are called fakers to our faces, deal with tutting, whispering, eye rolling and sometimes blatant abuse. I can only imagine what more severely disabled people experience.

So...do people really think telling folk who go through this DAILY IN REAL LIFE are gonna roll over for an online poster doing the same?

Of course I wouldn't berate someone not in a wheelchair using a loo.

There could be countless reasons why they need it for example stoma care.

They still have a disability.

Having a baby isn't in itself a disability and I'm really fed up of parents likening the two.

No I'm not bored. And I'm not the most vocal poster. Ive tried to engage. And if you read my posts I think it's fairly clear I'm not trying to wind anyone up.
But now I am tired of trying to engage with people who are so bitter and unpleasant.