Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

‘There should be one in the disabled toilet for the use of disabled parents.’ yes at an appropriate height and position - but given they can't even manage that with the actual toilets! I'm not holding my breath!

‘So if having to pass urine with the door open is unacceptable, why is it acceptable for a disabled person to wet themselves?’ exactly.

‘To have the only baby change in a disabled toilet is lazy planning,’ absolutely! Geez putting the change table for the able in the sink area wouldn't even incur extra cost!

‘I think it is unacceptable because you should not have the door open due to infection control.’ I have contamination ocd, so contamination is something I think about WAY too much, locks and handles are a bigger issue than doors left open. Frankly my main thing I hate in this respect is how few public loos have lids! Have you seen the stats on flushing dissemination?!

Hazeyjane thanks for link.

“Queueing is a way of life.” perhaps but the disabled have to do this more often, for longer and if there are continence issues that's unfair. Much easier for a mother and baby to wait than a disabled person.

WomanActually I actually made that point a few pages back, that there'd be uproar if a person took a P&C space, a space that was specifically designed for them, (you know, how wheelchair spaces are specifically designed for wheelchairs? ) and then lo and behold someone starts that P&C thread. It's the gift that keeps on giving!

For anyone who is still in doubt.

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I hope you get the picture

I still think it's cruel and inhuman to deny a desperate person access to an empty loo.

Not everyone with continence issues/IBS/colitis/mobility problems etc has a radar key. I didn't realise I was eligible for one until my specialist nurse told me.

Also, many mums simply buy a radar key online (which I agree is wrong) but there is nothing to stop them.

I hate to think of anyone being desperate for the loo and being unable to access it. Waiting a few minutes is expected, not being able to go until you get home (because of disability or pram) is another matter.

Most mums wouldn't dream of leaving the baby outside a cubicle or leaving the door open. Can you imagine having diarrohea with the cubicle door wide open, trying to entertain your baby while people walk past?
Everyone is entitled to privacy and dignity.

I don't entirely understand the issue about buggies not fitting in cubicles - can't you put the baby down on something on the floor? We had a fold up mini changing mat that came free from Boots or somewhere but an old towel would do too. And yes, you would have to leave your buggy out of sight but if it is an especially stealable one wouldn't you have a bike lock for it anyway?

I guess it depends how active your baby is. Mine would be crawling under the door or into the next cubicle!

Mine would have been off too! And I wouldn't want my baby anywhere near a public toilet floor tbh

I wouldn't sit on the floor of a public toilet, let alone put my baby down there.

Yet that's exactly what older children or adults wearing continence products are expected to do. Lay in it.

You say that as if we are personally responsible for the sad fact that changing facilities for older children or adults are lacking.

Odd conclusion to make...

i wonder how long it will be before the parents will decide that new disabled toilets with hoist and such are theirs to use.
and we will all be back to changing our disabled kids on the floor

If I'm out on my own with DD and need the loo I leave my pram near the till and the staff always watch it while I take DD into the cubicle with me and she sits on my knee. Granted some places may refuse to keep an eye on an empty pram but I usually go into Asda and the staff never mind

I actually did this in macdonalds today, and left the pram near the service counter, I was horrified to realise the disabled toilet had some teenage school kids in throwing toilet paper around and shouting at eachother. Who actually does this?! The staff kicked them all out but I hate to think if someone needed to use it and there were kids fooling around in there

I think the solution is simple; people with continence issues are just going to have to accept that they might soil themselves. It's far more important that a baby doesn't lie on a changing mat on the floor of a public toilet.

Disabled people - know your place!

Seriously when I was a kid there were so few disabled loos - much fewer than now - and mum managed.

She did on buses too.

They didn't have disabled facilities to abuse!!!

I legitimately have a RADAR key and was and when I found out that you can buy them on eBay!

When do you think a person is entitled to use the disabled loo, because of continence issues?

Most children have continence issues. Don't they count because they are small? Some people never gain continence - not because they have any other medical issues, they just never become dry. At what age then do you feel it is acceptable to use the accessible loo? A two year old? Three? How about six? Eight? Twelve? Fifteen? Do you have a cut off?

Childhood isn't a disability.
Try saying that to anyone with crohns, colitis or similar.

http://www.sobadass.me/2015/02/17/to-the-woman-who-tutted-at-me-using-the-disabled-toilets/

A 2 or 3 year old with "continence" issues would be in nappies surely?

When it gets to children age 5 plus then proper continence issues (not just forgetting they need to go until the last minute) would be an issue as much as it would be for an older person therefore parents will use their judgement on the best toilet to use - generally a child with continence issues of that level would a) have other issues and b) use some sort of nappies anyway.

Head why are you so desperate to find loopholes so that people can use disabled facilities?

It wasn't about children using the disabled loo, but mums with prams who can't get the pram into a normal cubicle and may have no other option if they are desperate. I don't think anyone should have to suffer the indignity and embarrassment of not being able to access a loo. Continence issues are particularly common after giving birth.

A child (without mobility issues) is usually able to access a normal cubicle toilet or wait in a queue. But if a mother asked me to unlock the disabled loo because her child was desperate and couldn't wait, I would do it. Who would stand by and watch a child wet himself, when you have the key to an empty loo?

Radar keys are often issued when there is a condition causing urgency. Perhaps this makes me more sensitive to others with urgency issues.

sirzy I'm afraid there are lots of children with problems using the loo and no other problems. and no they wouldn't necessarily be in nappies. There is a whole charity devoted to them!

Childhood isn't a disability but throws up a similar set if challenges. If we decide that a guy with a broken leg can use a wheelchair, after all he isn't disabled, and he will "grow out of it" I.e. Get better then we can surely recognise other groups of people who have needs for the moment.