Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

But if they have problems with continence then that is an issue which in terms of using a toilet is a disability so I am not sure what you are arguing really. I don't think anyone has said someone with genuine issues with contience shouldn't use a disabled toilet.

It is people using it just because it is there that is an issue - particularly for those with contience issues!

Id just like to see a little bit if compassion for all people struggling, whether permanent or not,

A mum with a pram does have another option. She chooses not to use it. Wheelchair users who have no use of their legs really have no options.

I wonder how many of you have soiled yourselves in public as an adult. I wonder if you know what it feels like. I wonder if you'd still compare your issues to a toddler who isn't yet toilet trained. I doubt it.

My point is that most children have some lack if functional ability in the toilet ing department, which if one accepts incontinence as a acceptable reason for using such a room then we should accept children may need that also. Otherwise it's ageist.

But if a mother asked me to unlock the disabled loo because her child was desperate and couldn't wait, I would do it.

Why can't that mother ask for her child to go next in the ladies? I doubt anyone would begrudge that.

It's not against at all. If a child is potty trained it is up to the parents to make sure they are taken to the toilet regulary. Being a young child isn't a disability and isn't comparable to proper contience issues.

If your child is really desperate and their is a queue do what many of us have done before and ask if the child can go first - I have never seen a child refused. It's fine to ask that for a young child, can you imagine an adult having to ask though? That's why it is very different for children and adults and children forgetting to go sooner isn't a contience issue.

I cannot believe that anyone could compare an adult soiling themselves (not 'normal' behaviour) to a child who craps in a nappy which is perfectly normal. Again, I can only assume that you haven't had adult continence issues and you have no empathy. I'm not incontinent but even I can figure it out.

I am a wheelchair user, and I would never begrudge a mum with a pram, desperate for a wee, popping in the disabled loo for, what, a minute? What are her other options? Leave baby unattended? Pee her pants. Those who suggest she lie baby on the toilet floor... Just no. Everyone needs to pee for goodness sake. I get quite fed up with the vitriol and accusations of entitlement directed on here at young mums trying to go about their business.

And OP if I was the wheelchair user waiting for the bus, I would have been mortified at your meddling. Because I don't believe that my needs trump everyone else's just because I happen to be disabled.

Let's have a bit of understanding and compassion for everyone shall we?

I wouldn't want anyone to soil or pee themselves.

What is wrong with a mother quickly using a disabled toilet if no wheelchair user is queueing for it?

Seriously? If another disabled person was in the toilet first, the one wanting it to use it would have to wait anyway.

It's not ideal but that is where the baby change is and the only place you can really take your pushchair. I couldn't sit ds on my knee to have a wee. He would thrash and hit me too much. Can't put him on the floor as he will crawl off and it's gross. Don't want to leave him unattended as obviously it's a danger so what am I supposed to do?

I lay my Ds on the toilet floor, on a cut down picnic rug, he is 6 and in nappies. Sometimes it is a huge clean up operation, involving a change of clothes and a sink if possible (baby wipes no longer quite cut it). Sometimes he gets very upset when he is being changed. He is also scared of bathrooms - the potential noise of the tap turning on, toilet flushing, hand dryer - all these things upset him.

I have 3 children, 2 only a year apart, and when I had Ds I had 3 under 4 - I remember what a hassle it was juggling babies, changing nappies in all sorts of places and last minute dashes with toilet training kids......but it isnt in the same ball park as dealing with Ds's toileting needs (and we have it easy compared to friends whose older children have higher needs)

In some places, if every "young mother" just nipped in, there would be long queues.

It would be nice if these mothers could recognise that these accessible toilets are only there due to disability campaigners working for access. Honestly, just a little recognition on these God-awful threads would be nice.

In some places, if every "young mother" just nipped in, there would be long queues

Of course there would but that's when it is taken in turns

Mind you I haven't seen this problem in my local sainsburys. They have their men's, women's and disabled toilet in the main shop and then in the cafe there are two more disabled toilets but no normal ones. So there are three chances to get into a bigger cubicle.

It's a non-issue when there is plentiful access to toilets. However, as a wheelchair user, I have encountered many stumbling blocks. I can wait, so it's not a massive issue in terms of urgency but unless you have to use an accessible cubicle all the time, you don't realise how challenging it is.

Why is it just young mothers who apparently are entitled? What about older mothers? I'm neither, at 25 I think I'm in the middle but young mothers shouldn't be a scape goat

Sorry got to do this

ITS A FUCKING DISABLED TOILET NOT A MOTHER AND BABY TOILET

Yet the baby changing is in the disabled toilet

I think "young mothers" - on this thread and sometimes in general - refers to "mothers of young children" rather than the age of the mother herself. Once your child is old enough to take themselves off to the toilet, or wait safely outside while you go, needing to go urgently or trying to squeeze pushchairs or extra people in to a tiny cubicle it's not an issue.

Only due to laziness on the part of the councils/companies etc and not all disabled toilets have baby changes in but we are expected to let mothers take over the ones that haven't as well as the ones that have

Yes the baby changing is in many disabled toilets, and this is crap planning and design (see previous post about lack of disabled changing in the disabled toilet - either for disabled parents or for disabled people who need to be changed) - so of course people need to change their babies in there (although hopefully someone will see sense and put baby changing in the male and female toilets and the changing places campaign changing-places.org/get_involved.aspx will lead to more fully accessible toilets)

However I thought the issue was with parents with buggies using the disabled toilet for themselves when the buggy won't fit in a cubicle.

I feel their should be fully accessible parent and baby loos too.

Fair enough mrsfrumble

There. I always see the spelling mistakes one fraction after I pressed post!

This bun fight reminds me of the buggies v wheelchairs on the bus one.. If there were enuf facilities provided to serve both communities, there wd be far less of this mine No mine stuff going on .Let' redirect this anger to the authorities who are under serving us all.