Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

If you are going to take babies on the bus I think you should assume you won't be able to wheel your pram on unfolded and plan accordingly. If you can leave it up, that's a nice bonus.
As a nanny, I've had a situation where I had to take a small baby and a toddler across central London for appointments, coming back at rush hour. Taking a fully loaded side by side pushchair would have been nicer but I knew I had no chance getting on buses and tubes.
I put the baby in a sling, toddler in a very lightweight buggy (maclaren volo) with reins on, nappies etc in a backpack. When the bus pulled up, toddler comes out of the buggy, reins go round my foot to stop him running, fold up the buggy and use the attached shoulder strap to carry it on board. Slightly stressful, but completely doable.

Some of the "excuses" are absolute rubbish.

I have mobility issues with my joints. I dislocate my elbows just putting clothes on in the morning; getting a toddler out of a pushchair to fold it, carry it onto the bus, heave it into the folded pushchair section all the while still trying to control said toddler would be a painful nightmare.

So if I'm on a bus and someone needs the wheelchair space, I get off. End of. It's much easier for me to wait for the next bus than it is for someone in a wheelchair - and I'll only have that inconvenience for a very finite, temporary amount of time. For a wheelchair user, that's a lifetime of waiting for the next bus.

Simple.

The space is called 'wheelchair space'. The clue is in the name.

So if people are standing in the wheelchair space ( happens often in the bus I use -we are packed to the rafters) thus no space at all, is the law such that the people are required to get off to vacate the space? I have no idea when boarding which space I will end up with.

I may not at first stand in that area but as the bus moves on and people get off and on, you end up being pushed into that area. I think if it is a protected space then it should be locked off and not available. But as I say I think the bus companies want my payment via a false suggestion that there is space

Yes of course

parents and disabled who all have competing needs.

You do get disabled parents you know

Of course but it shouldn't be default all baby stuff in disabled toilet. Because that means everytime i need the loo bound to be someone needed change a nappy. Do I begrudge the baby of course not. Do you have to wait nearly everytime you need pee in public? No didn't think so.

I'm giving up this thread you can't see every day frustration because you get to walk away when your children is no long in nappies or need pyshchair. Well done you win.

It would be interesting to know who many times those mithering about HOW DIFFICULT it would be to fold their buggy have actually had to fold their buggy for a wheelchair

I live on the same route as a big health centre and have noticed the proportion of wheelchair users is above average. Probably four or five times there have been two prams including mine in the wheelchair space when a wheelchair user was waiting.. If for some reason I couldn't fold the pram - newborn in pram that didn't fold easily, basket full of shopping that wasn't bagged up, etc - I cheerfully got off the bus, got a continuation ticket from the driver and continued with my day. That's the deal. You use the space if it's free, but if a wheelchair user needs it you don't quibble.

You're much more likely to be unable to get on due to the wheelchair space bring full of prams, tbh. Which is also not a massive deal. It's London, it's rare to have to wait too long for a bus. And if I'm ever going on a time sensitive bus journey I make sure I take the collapsible-with-one-hand buggy.

Headofthehive55 Every bus has a legal capacity and the driver should see that it is not exceeded - if necessary by refusing admission. That is obviously difficult where there are separate out doors as on many buses. At busy times in London you see the out-door opening first and the driver counting the number who get off, then opening the front door and saying how many can get on. If that is done there will be enough room for a wheelchair even if the bus is packed. Nobody can be required to leave but if you feel uncomfortable, feel free to get off and walk!

Regarding the driver announcing 'this bus will not move until the buggy is folded to make space for a wheelchair',I have witnessed this scenario on a couple of occasions when an entitled buggy-user has refused to make space for a wheelchair. 2 things happened. Firstly, the bus passengers started defending the BUGGY-USER,saying that they were there first,so they were entitled to stay. Secondly,the buggy -user,already convinced that THEY are the in the right,is encouraged by this support and digs their heels in further still. On these occasions,the bus driver has switched the engine off and said 'Looks like we're in for a long wait'. It was the wheelchair user,embarrassed at the lack of support and daggers looks that they were getting,that gave in. Shame on those bus passengers. And in case anyone is wondering why I didn't step in and speak up,I learnt to my cost that it is not worth the risk. I am disabled myself,though not in a wheelchair,I use walking sticks. A couple of years ago a when I tried to intervene when a woman was being particularly offensive and refusing to fold her buggy for a wheelchair user,I tried to politely reason with her. She called me a vile name,told me to fuck off and mind my own business,then threatened me again when I got off the bus,unfortunately at the same stop as her. Told me she would 'finish me' if she saw me again. Nice. So ever since then I have kept my mouth shut.

Sadly you can't reason with ignorant shits but well done for trying

I keep seeing reference to 'won't-fold-brigade'. I do hope I'm not being lumped into that category. It seemed to really rile some posters that I said I choose to give up buses altogether rather than deal with the stress. I find that unnecessarily aggressive. Am I, an able-bodied person, not allowed to find any situation beyond my comfortable tolerance? No-one knows how much or how little stress it might cause any particular individual to be stranded because of transport issues. I personally found the possibility that I would be unable to get home stressful enough that I chose to buy another car because I was fully aware that I had no entitlement to the unambiguously named WHEELCHAIR SPACE.

It just seems as if some posters are determined to have a fight and to foster some special animosity towards mothers. It's not enough that I fully acknowledge that wheelchairs have priority for wheelchair spaces - I must also categorically deny that any aspect of my travel poses the slightest difficulty - even if that difficulty causes me enough anxiety to seek completly other transport.

It's just belligerent to say 'we should go back to all buggies having to be folded'. Why take against all buggy users - most of whom would automatically follow the rules about wheelchair priority and have no desire to see a wheelchair user unable to travel as comfortably as possible?

Merchant why do you think you're being lumped into that category? I haven't seen anyone suggesting that you shouldn't have chosen an alternative means of transport - a choice perfectly within your rights

Dear god, some people always make everything all about themselves.

Well perhaps I was being over-sensitive, but I've explained why I struggled with folding, and then there are various posts labelling all the 'excuses' as 'pathetic' and explaining how easy-peasy it is to fold a buggy whilst holding a newborn and all your bags...

Sometimes it's difficult to tell what's aimed at whom on here. Certainly not trying to make it all about me.

In addition,I haven't seen many posters actually say they won't fold so I won drew if people were misinterpreting some posts.

I've been on the bus with two buggies when the driver has told a waiting wheelchair user at a later stop there was no room - no consultation. Now feeling more guilty than I already did for not offering to leave.

*wondered

I understand there are limits to bus capacity. However bus seats so many and as there is no wheelchair a certain standing capacity. Now we arrive at a stop where a wheelchair wants access. Standing capacity when wheelchair is on board is less, leading to space for wheelchair. Ours use dual space wheelchair / fold seats. But the problem is those spaces have already been taken. Not with buggies, but people, standing.

Is the wheelchair space protected?

"Dear god, some people always make everything all about themselves."

Actually did laugh out loud at this one!

Merchant I certainly wan't referring to you when I used a similar phrase - I was talking about the people who are .. you know .. actually on the bus and causing the problem. Why you'd think anyone would be talking about you (as a non-bus user) mystifies me.

Umm it was because I'd made a song and dance about not coping with folding...

This thread has been really helpful actually as I am now ordering a umbrella fold buggy for my one year old. I have an icandy and its a nightmare to fold and it is big amd bulky I would still fold it or get off for a wheelchair user though but really I should just have an easily collapsible one in the first place to make it easier for everyone.