Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

I feel like spamming this thread until some people get it through their thick heads that it is a wheelchair space.

I'm a driver ( dons hard hat ) and our policy is we always ask the parents if either of them will fold the buggy. We have 2 spaces. If they refuse, we have no way to force them

Good to know.

Whatever others may think, there will always be parents with pushchairs/prams that cannot be folded (for whatever reason) who have waited a long time for a bus with an accessible space, who need to stay on that bus to get somewhere on time. I think it is very unrealistic to expect someone to get off the bus when they have already paid and are halfway through their journey.

I agree that pre-bookable spaces might be the answer.

There are enough buses these days to wait a few minutes for the next one, whether you're in a a wheelchair or pushing a pram.

1. this applies to cities. Where I live they are every thirty minutes.
2. Weather plays a large factor in the comfort and safety of those with disabilities.
3. If it's that easy, you wait for the next bus, your child will be out of the buggy in a year or two. Unlike me.

(it was a bassinet attachment on a heavy chassis). Having staggered the short distance to the bus-stop I wouldn't have been able to stand and wait for the next bus and would have missed appointments.

1. Buy a folding buggy.
2. Now you know how I feel, and will feel for the rest of my life, perhaps that very short period of disability will enable you to feel empathy for those of us who have no hope of a recovery. Dawndonna's dd.

I agree that pre-bookable spaces might be the answer.
No, No and No.
Do you have to pre-book should you decide to go to the pictures on a whim? I do, I have to pre-book help, a space at the pictures etc. Why the hell should I have to add something else to the list, other people don't have to. Pre-booking means you are different, we know you are different and as we don't want to be confronted with your differences because it makes our lives seem that bit more fragile, we'll make it as difficult for you as possible to engage with us socially, academically, emotionally and in fact, on very level that it's possible to do so. Should you overcome these (on occasion literal) hurdles, we'll admire your tenacity, talk about you, wonder why the fuck all disabled people aren't taking part in the olympics and then forget you. Again.
Dawndonna's dd.

Merchant ". But to me the aggro of bus usage just with a small buggy genuinely was too much."

sorry if I missed it, but are you a poster who can't fold their buggy due to disability? A lot of this is about how crap things are for disabled people and I'm sad it hasn't improved over the years.

No wheelchair user should have to pre book a space on a bus or train. Also in London how would you do it? You'd have to know the reg of the bus!!

With people like SunRoute celebrating the driver's impotence regarding the enforcement of equality law and common decency, the sooner buggy folding becomes mandatory before boarding the bus the better.

For fuck sake people if it's that much of an inconvenience to fold your pram or it doesn't fold then get off the fucking bus and wait for the next one. I say this as someone who lives up north and the next bus is sometime 30 mins to an hour wait but you know what the Inconvenience of having to wait for a bit for another bus is nothing compared to the Inconvenience of having to use a wheelchair.

I'm so sorry for anyone on this thread in a wheelchair or is affected by this In some way but this thread and some of the attitudes on it have utterly disgusted me. No wonder people with disabilities feel like second class citizens when they're faced with some of the cunts on here.

Foggy I meant that the vast majority of wheelchair users have permanent disabilities and they have first claim on any wheelchair space. I don't think too many have temporary difficulties caused by breaking a leg after the pub

Oh sorry - yes I see - sorry!

SunRoute, it isn't unrealistic to expect buggy users to get off if they won't or can't fold their buggy because, for the hundredth time, the space they are using isn't a buggy space. If, as a buggy user, you are not prepared to accept that risk, then you will have to make alternative arrangements. Or invest in a buggy that can fold. When my kids were little I used an umbrella fold one when I travelled by public transport, it was incredibly easy and cost peanuts new.

Ilovesooty - I think, when I was a tot, that it was compulsory to fold buggies? I could be misremembering.

high fives Dawndonna's dd

It must make you feel sick to read these pathetic attempts at self-justification from able-bodied numpties. Sorry you have to put up with this sort of shit from people who should know better x

Sunroute- Do you think it is OK to use spaces that weren't designed for you and that makes like difficult for those they were designed for?

I may have missed this - sorry if I have.

If you think someone should get off the bus, how should that person be recompensed for the fare they have already paid? They may not have the change or be able to afford to pay again.

Milk, they should get a ticket for onward travel from the driver.

What if your pram doesn't fold? With mine only the frame folds, but the base does not. There is no way I could dismantle it with a newborn inside in only a few minutes. I don't consider using a pram on a bus being an abuser of a wheelchair space, the whole argument is ridiculous. First come, first serve.

Another fucking selfish entitled arsehole who shouldn't be allowed to have the right to raise the next generation.

I despair.

I'm sorry but I can't get my head around telling someone to get off the bus when they are mid-journey.

If they can safely fold their pram and hold their child on their lap I agree they should do so, but if not I think the person wanting the space should accept it is occupied and wait for the next bus. According to the post upthread, bus-drivers cannot force a parent to fold a pram or leave the bus, suggesting the space is not exclusively for wheelchair users, but for anyone who needs it.

What if you have 2 non-walking babies, how are you going to hold onto both of them on your lap? How is that safe? What if the bus brakes suddenly, wouldn't you all end up on the floor?

SunRoute People like you sicken me. You wouldn't even be using the space if it weren't for disability campaigners. You should be grateful!

If they had to fold before getting on the situation wouldn't arise.

I can't imagine how anyone would have the sheer nerve to continue to commandeer a wheelchair space when a wheelchair user is trying to board the bus.

Ooooh thank fuck my youngest wont be in a buggy this time next year!

The driver took advantage of the fact that the wheelchair user didn't kick up a fuss. As did the pram user for that matter. YANBU.

We pre book spaces here to go to the cinema.

It's about practicalities. Some areas it would work, some not.

I think there is a difficulty in the bus accepting payment for travel - and then allowing you to stand in the wheelchair space. Either the bus is full, then I will not get on or it's not. Either the space is protected fully and no one should be allowed to stand there at all (my preferred option) or it's not. Allowing use of it until a wheelchair user comes along and if it's a full bus expecting you to get off is wrong. Expecting you to move to another seat is reasonable.

SunRoute,
Whilst I'd like to do this in words of one syllable, I haven't the time to come down to your level. However, I started my first post pointing out that I am one of twins, that my brother was 18 months when we were born, and do you know what, Mum managed. Even more, she managed a major buggy with a four year old with ADHD on reins and a five and a half year old brother. Nobody is going to get off the bus carrying the babies belonging to another person, nobody is going to kidnap them and generally speaking most people will help if asked. Babies are unlikely to contract a serious illness or hypothermia being left at at bus stop for an extra period of time. I am. As I said, there is the possibility that I could die if left in the rain/cold/snow or even the heat for too long.
In a relatively short period of time, your little ones will be adults. You are lucky, they are unlikely to be adults like me, ignored, dismissed and put firmly in our places by people like you.
Dawndonna's dd.

the sooner buggy folding becomes mandatory before boarding the bus the better

Which would mean a lot of mothers with newborns or more than one baby would be unable to use buses at all And what about those who have had C-sections or have a disability that makes it unsafe for them to hold the baby on their lap for the journey?

Buses should be accessible to everyone, including mums with prams.

If spaces were pre-bookable, anyone needing a guaranteed space (for wheelchair OR buggy) would then have the option of booking in advance, rather than hoping there is a space available. Like you can on trains.

I think the person wanting the space should accept it is occupied and wait for the next bus. According to the post upthread, bus-drivers cannot force a parent to fold a pram or leave the bus, suggesting the space is not exclusively for wheelchair users, but for anyone who needs it

IT IS A WHEELCHAIR SPACE. FULL STOP.