Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

Dawn, I really hope some of the more selfish gits on the thread read your post.

What if your pram doesn't fold? With mine only the frame folds, but the base does not. There is no way I could dismantle it with a newborn inside in only a few minutes. I don't consider using a pram on a bus being an abuser of a wheelchair space, the whole argument is ridiculous. First come, first serve. There are enough buses these days to wait a few minutes for the next one, whether you're in a a wheelchair or pushing a pram.

They probably have read it and it's made no difference (with the exception of the poster who admits to being a twat and not rtft)

Oh look. Another one.

And yet another one.

Have we had 'they all have free cars' yet? or 'if I was a wheelchair user I would never expect anyone to move for me'?

Yesterday 22:03 fanjoforthemammaries

Or you get off the bus, I couldn't fold and on about 2 occasions I got off bus. I survived

EXACTLY this. I ride busy buses in London with small kids on a daily basis, and I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen a person in a wheelchair waiting to board, I have a chronic pain condition and at the end of a long day with my kids I am hurting badly and so exhausted I could cry. But to even compare that to a lifetime of being wheelchair-bound is appalling.

DooBiddy, it's not first come first served because IT'S A WHEELCHAIR SPACE. Buggy users only get to use them as a concession if wheelchair users don't need them. What is so difficult to understand about that?

if you were too dumb to contemplate getting a foldable pram, that's your problem. You will have to walk, or get off the bus, if a wheelchair user needs the space.

It's not the wheelchair users fault if you bought a pram that doesn't fold up.

Julius has anyone on this thread said that buggies should take priority over wheelchairs? Maybe I missed it.

Merchant, yes, a few people have. Just look at DooBiddy a few posts up. Quite extraordinary.

DooBiddyDoo, what kind of pram is incapable of folding and what on earth would possess you to purchase such a thing??

If you had to fold prior to boarding perhaps it might encourage you to buy less antisocial equipment.

It used to be our buses wouldn't let you on unless your buggy was folded, maybe it's time to go back to that rule.

Is this the law everywhere or just London?

Not everyone in a wheelchair is 'without use of their legs'. My grandma often uses one when her arthritis is bad. I've taken her on the bus a few times but she prefers to sit on a proper seat once on board (presumably for comfort though I haven't asked why). I help her onto the seat then fold the wheelchair (it folds flat with one hand, not sure if all do this, it's a hired one from the Red Cross). I can't imagine her (or anyone else) forcing a mum with a baby off the bus! Surely anyone who can transfer easily and safely should do so, leaving the space free for those who have greater need? In my grandma's situation the mum with a non-folding pram/ sleeping baby has greater need IMO.

Also, if the space is 'wheelchairs only', what about someone with a disability but who is still mobile? Eg someone with their leg in a cast or ex-fix who needs the space to keep their leg extended and fit their crutches in? Should they be made to get off the bus and wait for the next one?

As a new mum I was dependent on buses for a while. I had to get to hospital appointments and clinics. I'd had a traumatic birth, SPD and was in a lot of pain; walking and bending was painful, I was bleeding heavily, severely anaemic, and physically unable to carry folded pram and baby or sit with the bassinet on my lap (it was a bassinet attachment on a heavy chassis). Having staggered the short distance to the bus-stop I wouldn't have been able to stand and wait for the next bus and would have missed appointments.

Obviously there are going to be occasional situations where the person with the buggy is worse off than the person with the wheelchair, but these won't be the norm and there has to be a simple rule unless we quiz everyone and put it to a jury of passengers each time.

Sorry I have to do this

ITS A FUCKING WHEELCHAIR SPACE NOT A BUGGY SPACE, MOVE YOUR BUGGY OUT WHEN A WHEELCHAIR USER WANTS TO GET INTO IT

If your leg is in a cast due to a fracture which is healing you do not have a disability covered by the Equality Act 2010.

What icamorgan said.

No exceptions.

SunRoute no element of your situation entitled you to use a wheelchair space if it was needed for a wheelchair.

In fact people bleating on about who is most worthy of space on certain occasions are just embarrassing themselves

Reading this thread has resulted in me having a broken jaw due to the amount of times it's hit the floor.

Were you 'first come, first served' entitled types this pig-ignorant before having children or did it come with the job?

As a PP said, you're raising your children to be as repulsively selfish as you are. You'd better hope and pray that none of your family become wheelchair users because then you'd really know what it's like to have difficulty using the bus.

'Can't wake a sleeping baby' 'Have to hold my shopping' 'Can't fold a buggy with one hand' First World Problems you sad little people.

SunRoute, why not read the thread? It's been pointed out that for many wheelchair users, whilst they can transfer from the wheelchair it's very painful for them and/or dangerous because bus seats don't have the support that wheelchairs do. And if you've got a disability the act of folding a wheelchair in itself is difficult. It's simply in no way comparable to the position of an able-bodied parent lifting a small child out and folding a buggy.

As for people on crutches: when I was on crutches with a broken leg, I found it easier to stand on the bus anyway, it really was no joke trying to get up from a bus seat. If you need to sit, you can usually extend your leg into the aisle. In the tiny, tiny proportion of cases where the person on crutches has to sit and needs to extend their leg and has nowhere to sit except near the wheelchair space, I'm quite sure there would be no issue about letting them stay.

I'm not really buying your drip-feed of your difficulties as a new mother, to be honest. If you were that unwell you would have ditched the totally unsuitable pram at the first opportunity, and if you were really in that much difficulty getting to hospital appointments, you would have been able to call on the hospital transport service. You say that you couldn't wait for the next bus, but presumably you wouldn't have had a choice if there were buggies and/or wheelchairs already in the wheelchair space before you got on in the first place.

Playing top trumps over a disabled person makes you look like a massive twat. I'm embarrassed for you.

P.S. It's a wheelchair space.

Yes, sorry - I see that they did, Augusta. I had missed that.

I was one of the people who said categorically that wheelchair users should have priority for the, erm, wheelchair spaces. But I also had the audacity to say that I found travelling on a bus with a buggy awkward to the point of impossibility - that is true here in the sticks(not in London, I gather).

Personally I never encountered any 'clashes' involving wheelchairs in my bus days. I do remember certain sections of society tutting and frowning at the mere presence of a buggy though. So, whilst I take the point that some mums may be twats and essentially have brought the term 'mumtitlement' into existence through their ignorant bus etiquette, I also feel that some mums are hated and accused of mumtitlement just for wanting to get on the bus with a pram. Yes, I probably should have thicker skin. But to me the aggro of bus usage just with a small buggy genuinely was too much. That of course should lead us all to the conclusion that it is an even more unbearable ordeal for wheelchair users who may not have any other choice.