Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

Head okay, but can you see when we have to pre-book everything, it's a further hurdle. Pre-booking a bus means I can't go for a drink or a meal after the cinema. I can't just decide to go to a club with my friends, I can't go to the market on a Saturday afternoon without booking.
Dawndonna's dd.

it's a wheelchair space, Sun.

It should be easy then for bus driver to do an inward travel ticket round here - it's all computerised so should be easy enough to program in to the system.

On our buses though the wheelchair space sticker actually states that buggies and pushchairs can only use it if it's not required by a wheelchair. And the other stickers state that buggies must be folded at busy times.

but if not I think the person wanting the space should accept it is occupied and wait for the next bus.

No, because it's a wheelchair space. If it's not occupied by a wheelchair the selfish bitch using it needs to shift her arse and fold or get off.

suggesting the space is not exclusively for wheelchair users, but for anyone who needs it.

That's being appealed. The picture of a wheelchair and the words "Wheelchair space" should convince even the most stupid of people of its purpose. But not you, it seems.

What if you have 2 non-walking babies, how are you going to hold onto both of them on your lap? How is that safe? What if the bus brakes suddenly, wouldn't you all end up on the floor?

You probably would. Maybe you should start a campaign for buggy spaces on buses. Just don't steal the one designed for disable people not for parents too lacking in sense to buy a foldable buggy.

the space is not exclusively for wheelchair users, but for anyone who needs it.

Are you for real? Have you bothered reading any part of the thread that explains that it is a WHEELCHAIR SPACE? It is not a fucking first come first serve space! Has the penny dropped with any of the entitled arses on this thread, that you don't see many wheelchair users on buses because they can't fucking get on?

Look at how many pushchairs you see when you are out and then take a note of how many wheelchair users there are, but the wheelchair users should WAIT because poor precious mummy/daddy doesn't want to be inconvienced folding her/his pushchair. How many buses should they miss the? Do you have an acceptable number?

Of course there are always the arses that don't bother buying a folding pushchair because it's first come, first serve, innit.

For goodness sake, SunRoute, what do you find so difficult to understand about a sign that says "This space is for wheelchair users only. Buggies and pushchairs may be left here only if it is not needed by a wheelchair user"?

You should get off the bus mid-journey if you can't or won't fold your pushchair because those are the terms on which the space is made available to you. Did you know that the only reason that space exists at all is because wheelchair users campaigned long and hard to get it? Yet again, if you don't like it, get a buggy that folds easily or make other arrangements. You have that choice. Wheelchair users don't.

Bus drivers could force people to leave by refusing to move until they do so and/or calling the police if necessary. Generally they don't for pretty obvious reasons. But the fact that their options are limited if someone chooses to be a total arsehole can't conceivably be interpreted as justifying the arsehole.

Many wheelchair users already don't use buses because of entitled parents. But of course they don't matter.

Writeforfun are you having a go at me? Genuinely not sure. No, I don't have a disability. I was saying that where I live, buses are generally rubbish and late, and, what with all the faffing, I found relying on public transport virtually impossible with a buggy. Is that at all contentious? My response to these difficulties was not stop using buses. My situation had no impact on wheelchair users.

I then went on to say that if I found it that difficult just with a buggy, how much more difficult must it be for a wheelchair user. Again, not contentious.

My original point, several pages back, was that it's NOT always easy just to fold a buggy. I say that as a statement of fact. I base it on a situation I found myself in with a newborn, when the bus driver was willing to wait for me to fold my pram but I physically couldn't manage it as well as holding baby. (NB there were no wheelchair users present - it was one of those crappy old buses more like a coach, so a wheelchair user would have found it literally impossible to use).

So what I'm saying is that wheelchair users always have priority and that obstacles to their life are huge and permanent. I'm also saying that I personally found using a bus unfeasible with young children. So I stopped. I just have an uncanny feeling that someone is going to find a way to be offended by this.

Why won't any of you "I have a right to use the space too! " posters ever answer our questions;

1.) Do you realise that disability rights campaigners got those spaces for wheelchair users, so if they hadn't done that how would you travel?

2.) Why don't you get off your backsides and campaign for more spaces on buses like they did?

Conveniently, it gets ignored while they whinge about c-sections, twins and hospital appointments as if disabled people don't have exactly the same issues but not just temporarily, all their bloody lives!

*my response was TO stop using buses, not 'not stop using buses'

the sooner buggy folding becomes mandatory before boarding the bus the better

Which would mean a lot of mothers with newborns or more than one baby would be unable to use buses at all

Are you seriously trying to say that mothers of newborns can't carry their babies? You're getting into fantasy land. And plenty of mothers with more than one baby manage to fold their buggies. Can you not exercise your brain a bit by looking at Dawndonna's DD's posts and telling us why a bit of minor inconvenience to you should outweigh what she is coping with every day?

It's a wheelchair space! That's it! Bizarrely have just been debating this on Facebook with a lady who said wheelchair users could fold their chairs, and if they can't move themselves they should have a carer with them who can lift them to a seat.

Ffs.

Merchant, I wasn't sure if I got you mixed up with someone else and scrolling on the phone is a pain.

I'm a bit confused by the "folding a buggy is a pain" when it's not accompanied by a reason why, but I'm only familiar with the kind that's easy to collapse. I will say that - assuming parent is not disabled - I am mystified that people aren't buying the easy collapse kind if they are on the bus.

There are tons of parents - it seems of the older generation - who just collapsed their buggies so I am a bit confused by all the "it's so hard". Another pp has mentioned childminding twins and doing it as well.

I don't really see how booking the space would help anyway. You would still have the situation where, when the bus arrived at the wheelchair users' stop, anyone with a buggy using the wheelchair user's space would have to leave. And you can bet some of the entitled idiot types would still make a fuss about that.

SunRoute babyhood is temporary

It is a wheelchair space and if unfolded buggies weren't permitted wheelchair users would be able to use it for its intended purpose.

Conveniently, it gets ignored while they whinge about c-sections, twins and hospital appointments as if disabled people don't have exactly the same issues but not just temporarily, all their bloody lives!

So are you basically minimising some people's medical problems just because they aren't permanent?

Ffs. Why don't wheelchair users just travel by parcel force, I mean they already get the best parking spaces, we can't have them going about catching buses as and when they choose as though they're equal. If you're already in the enviable position of being disabled, you shouldn't expect some hard done to mummy to inconvenience herself. After all being a parent is tough, and people with wheelchairs don't have kids/jobs/ lives/ rights or anything so should happily prioritise buggys.

PS Merchant I do get that you are not saying you have a problem with wheelchair spaces, I just lost the plot on whether you were using the bus with a buggy and a disability.

I think more flip top seating would help with that.

Only if they're refusing to get out of wheelchair spaces for wheelchair users citing those medical problems as reasons.

When my son was a baby and toddler there were no accessible buses where I live. You either folded your buggy or walked. He's 9 so that's only 6 years ago.

How is it minimising to point out that that disabilities by definition are permanent?

But way to miss the point, thanks! ;)

I used a car instead too merchant ! I couldn't lift a buggy onto a bus (CS you aren't supposed to lift more than baby). I just found it easier.

dawn I'm very much a pre booking sort of person. I don't do meals etc without booking. There are too many of us.

No disabilities are not always permanent. My DD was classed as disabled as a child, but she isn't now.

Minimising because they can't possibly be suffering because hey it isn't permanent. In that time space of time they are unwell or recovering from an operation I think people should have a little bit more empathy rather than these rules being so rigid.