Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

ilovesooty I think you misunderstand my point.

And dawndonnaagain's DD

Every selfish "I-can't-possibly-fold-or-disturb-my-sleeping-baaaaaby" should be made to read and understand your post. You put so well the daily marginalisation of people with living with disability.

Some posters on this thread are disgusting.

When I had my first DC I struggled to have confidence (PND) to even leave the house. One day I 'braved' going to the town centre by bus. When the it arrived there were elderly people sat across the wheelchair / buggy area. They gave me defensive looks despite other seats being available on the bus and no wheelchairs / sticks present. The driver looked blank so I got back off and gave up. I probably looked ok but I didn't feel it and I would have liked someone, whom was not in my vulnerable state of mind, to support me. The wheelchair user may not have felt vulnerable, but surely well meaning support is ok?
OP I would have done same thing.

Everyone matters and people should give a fuck about others. And consider each other.

I also have a 2 under 8s I would be annoyed at being made to get off a bus. We live somewhere buses are very very frequent so if I was already on the bus I wouldn't want to get off. If that makes me a twat I don't care

ODFOD. Still , I suppose you've just shown people exactly what sort of a nasty twat you are.

Foggy I don't think I've misunderstood any of your points? I agree with you!

This would have annoyed me too OP. It is so hard using a wheelchair in London and I think it would be nice if everyone went out of their way to be helpful. That said, I don't think anyone should have to leave a bus either. Just try everything they can to accommodate the wheelchair.
In your situation, the wheelchair user probably didn't want to cause a fuss and was happy to wait for the next bus. But what if the next bus had another buggy, and the next? When I was pushing buggies around London I often had to wait for 2-3 buses before there was a space.
Perhaps the signs on buses need to be more specific - 'please be ready to fold your buggy if a wheelchair needs this space' etc

What if someone is on the bus with 2 small baby's there's no one to help. Because people are staring out the window pretending not to see. You have a hospital appointment for one of the baby's. If you get of the bus you will miss that appointment.

That's a risk you have to be prepared to take if you want to use the wheelchair space. It's the same risk if you get on the bus and find the space occupied by other buggy users. It would be vanishingly rare for there to be no-one on the bus prepared to hold a baby for a couple of minutes. After all, all bus users have to take the risk that the bus just won't turn up for ages or will be too full to get on when it turns up.

Sleepingbunnies, if you put your wish not to use a fold-up buggy ahead of the rights of wheelchair users, it makes you more than a twat.

I do think there ought to be a ring and reserve option for wheelchair users, a bit like trains. With phones and modern technology surely that would help

OR we could just say pushchairs have to do this... Oh wait that be inconvenient pain in the ass!! Wheelchair users already have give 24h notice for trains book taxis ahead often you can't get one for ages. Bus are about only thing you can just jump on.

Can see buses saying sorry it's not this space saves then doing ramp. 10 people get on stop before take up standing room again tough can't refuse money as wgeelchair might not even be at next stop. Neve going work

Foggy I meant that the vast majority of wheelchair users have permanent disabilities and they have first claim on any wheelchair space. I don't think too many have temporary difficulties caused by breaking a leg after the pub.

I've been on the bus with my pram once when a wheelchair needed to get on, I moved my pram, the wheelchair user went in the wheelchair space and I put my pram at the end of the wheelchair space, I offered to fold but she insisted there was enough space for us both. If there had been two prams I would have asked for a transfer ticket and got off

This thread is fucking depressing.

Of course buggies should be golfed up if a wheelchair user gets on the bus, anybody that thinks otherwise is a twat.

Folded up*

As stated before someone could be in a wheelchair bc of a broken leg on their way to the pub and someone else could have floppy newborn twins which they can't carry on their own and fold a buggy and be on their way to a hospital appointment.

Wow. Just wow. I can't believe santons thinks a moral judgement should be made about how people in wheelchairs came to be in them.

A quadriplegic who recklessly dives into a shallow pool is less deserving of a space than someone with motor neurone disease that's not in any way under their control. Absolutely ridiculous point. If you're making that argument (which I totally disagree with) you could say the mother doesn't deserve the space any more than the man with the broken leg because she chose to have children meaning she needs a pushchair. Those spaces are there for wheelchairs. That's who gets priority.

Some of the comments on this thread have left me absolutely gobsmacked.

And people wonder how the phrase mumtitlement was coined.

If that makes me a twat I don't care.
And that's the action that could have me in hospital, or even dead, but you go ahead.
Dawndonna's dd.

Also, I have a friend who uses an electric wheelchair and she ended up having panic attacks and not going out because of the attitudes that were similar to some on here. Oh and she couldn't get a taxi either because the firm of wheelchair friendly taxis she used had to close. Dawndonnaagain's dd .

I'm a driver ( dons hard hat ) and our policy is we always ask the parents if either of them will fold the buggy. We have 2 spaces. If they refuse, we have no way to force them. And they know it. The most common refusals come from, bizarrely, young mums. They tend to sit playing on smart phones which they can't do while holding their baby/child. It annoys me when I can't make them move. Most of us up here try so hard to accommodate but keep hearing " I KNOW MY RIGHTS! " from buggy passengers. Lots of people do fold happily though. Please don't flame me I'm not attacking anyone. It's just experience from 10 years driving. Also, we get yelled at by cyclists a lot because we can't carry bikes

sleeping there are no words

( well there are but my post would be deleted)
What a poor role model.

dawn yourpost made me so sad.
I have an invisible disability.
I too know what it's like for people to 'not see you' but i can't imagine how bad it is for you

I am horrified at some of the selfish attitudes on here. The vast majority of posters on here fighting for the rights of the disabled bus users are actually parents so they do understand it's difficult on the bus with little children. But it's nothing like being disabled and winey arguments cut no ice.

SunRoute, you are a special kind of selfish. Take a good look at yourself as posting the rubbish you have after disabled people have already explained the devastating impact attitudes like yours has on them, well that make you a bad person. You should be ashamed.

If those people saying how difficult it is with a wriggley, hair pulling, nipping and biting baby/toddler imagined their child still behaving like as a teenager, they might get an idea of how difficult it is for others on public transport.
It is a wheelchair space. If a wheelchair user wants it you move.

The selfishness of some really astounds me.

Thankfully I rarely need to use buses but do use trains with Ds. He is in a special needs buggy, he has to stay strapped in it when on the train for his own safety and my sanity I have had people complain I won't move my child who is "old enough to walk" so they can park an empty buggy in the space

I was on the train when a wheelchair user needed to get on, so I moved and stood in the door area with Ds (with permission from the guard, was a small local type train) so the wheelchair user could use the space.

Generally with a bit of common sense everyone can access the spaces, but what it takes is for people to not just think of themselves.

I wonder why all the parents on here don't start a petition for pushchair spaces on the buses, since all think you have as much right to the space as a person in a wheelchair? Oh yes, that's right, it's because being a child is TEMPORARY, you can always abuse use the wheelchair space AND you can't be arsed!

As for the bullshit about being too shy to ask for help, because other passengers are ignoring you, funny how that same level of embarrassment doesn't come into play when you're leaving the wheelchair user at the side of the road.

Of course you never see a wheelchair user on a bus. That's because they can't get on the fucking bus in the first place, because of precious mummies who refuse to fold because of a MINOR AND TEMPORARY inconvenience!

You should be ashamed of yourselves, but unfortunately, as proven by your comments, you're too entitled to feel shame. That generation that you're bringing up to be selfish arses will be the same generation that will refuse to get their arse off the priority seats or food a pushchair when your're old, sick or disabled, because YOU have taught them to be selfish by leading by example. I bet you shout louder than anyone when your time comes.

It's a wheelchair space.