To think IF what dd says is true these parents are freeloading horrors?

[listsandbudgets]

DD has just come back from Brownie camp. It was £80 for 3 nights away including some great activities and all food etc which I thought was quite good value.

She says one of the girls in her dormitory kept saying that other girls parents were really silly to pay the full £80 as Brownies would pay if you asked and you just had to make a contribution based on what you could afford. She told DD endlessly that "her mum and dad only paid 1p for the whole trip" and kept telling her what a great bargain it was.

AIBU to think that if this is true then the parents are complete free-loaders? Surely even if they were on full benefits, they'd have been able to find £5 at least towards it. 1p is almost insulting - however perhaps that was all they could afford and I'm a judgemental cow

Duvet I'm not surprised you feel bad about your DC getting the trip largely paid for. Perhaps you should consider paying it back so that the money can benefit some children that genuinely can't afford it. You could pay it back slowly if need be.

Just because your DC were offered the trip didn't mean that you had to accept it. It's OK for DC to understand they can't always do everything they want to.

retrorobot2
Yes, and re school trips, the parents will say, "the school gets pupil premium for my child, so why should I pay". Meantime they spend the money on fags and booze and everything is the fault of the EU migrants who are taking all the jobs. My God, there is a very significant chunk of the English population that needs a good kick up the arse.

The strange thing that I have found is that its not the low income families that take the piss, it is (generally) the well off, the high earner, and the upper middle that moan and whine about giving money to schools or paying for trips.

These are the people that will come in and get all 'up in your face' about what they consider to be right, and they normally do it because they are nasty small minded bullies.

Just my opinion.

My DD (7) makes-up entirely about every third thing that comes out of her month. I wouldn't give any credence to it.

I'm sure they didn't pay 1p. I expect the girl has got hold of the idea that you only have to pay what you can afford and turned that into 'so you only have to pay 1p' and was trying to make a joke of it.

I imagine it's quite likely she let slip to the others that her parents hadn't paid, and was then embarrassed by their reactions, so turned it round on them by saying their parents are silly for paying.

Brownie groups etc do have a pot of money, though I don't suppose they can subsidise much. When you get a reminder about unpaid subs from ours (oops!) it does say something like, "If you are having financial difficulties in paying these subs, please contact us" which implies they will let you off or let you pay in installments or something.

DD didn't go to camp because the payment was due soon after we;d paid for school residential trip. Now wishing I'd told them and asked if we could pay late or reduced price or something.

I'm sure there are people who don't pay any of the voluntary stuff school asks for, and they probably get everyone to pay slightly more than they need to to cover this. That's not fair, but then I suppose neither is it fair on the kids to make them miss out because their parent is a twat/can't afford it.

Whatever the reason if it's true, it's not the child's fault. Perhaps the parents have a reason why they can't pay and I'm pretty sure Scouting UK has funding for children who can't afford to pay subs and take part in trips and residentials.

Freeloaders annoy me.

Growing up I didn't have much, my dad refused to work so my mum was the only earner, we ate the cheapest brand food, had second hand or hand-me-down from cousins clothes and uniform, shoes used to have to last us a year even if our feet grew she tried her hardest to scrape money together for school trips, and often the school subsidized trips she couldn't completely afford or couldn't pay at all.

In either year 10 or 11 there was a day trip out to Cadbury World, everyone in the year was going but it wasn't compulsory or necessary. My mum couldn't afford it, the school said because it wasn't necessary to our education they weren't going to pay for me to go.

I turned up at school on the day of the trip, thinking I wasn't going. When the Head of IT approached me and told me to get on the bus with my friends, she'd paid out of her own pocket for me to go - I had no spending money, and was in my school uniform, but I loved it and I will forever be grateful to that teacher for making sure I didn't feel left out from my friends.

I did pay her back, a few years later when I went back to the school to get my exam certificates, but I will still never forget it and be forever grateful.

"Growing up I didn't have much, my dad refused to work so my mum was the only earner,"

What sort of father refuses to work and support his children?

I'm a treasurer for a Brownie pack - and we are a charity. We would hate for a child not to be able to attend purely because of cost and we would offer subsidies etc. We claim gift aid so have extra we use to subsidise trips for all the brownies to try and keep costs down. We try to balance things out - so some weeks the only cost will be the hall hire - or not even that if we do an outside treasure hunt - and other weeks we may have an expensive visitor or hire a coach. If we have funds we try not to charge for anything extra. So parents know what they have to pay every term.

As a PP poster said we live in a small community and usually know the families quite well.
Once we had a cheap year so were comfortable for money. We offered to cover subs for a term for one child who we knew came from a low income family - they had always paid but it was obviously a struggle. They gratefully accepted - but then a week later asked for the previous terms fees back -they wouldn't have paid them if they knew they didn't have to ! (No we couldn't do that!) Thankfully they were leaving anyway or I am sure they would never have paid again...
We also offered to help out a child who had had a really wealthy lifestyle until out of the blue her father left (had another woman). The mother was shell shocked and obviously struggling - the house went on the market but wouldn't sell and must have cost a fortune to run. After a month or so the mum withdrew the child from Brownies - so we contacted her to say we would cover her subs until she got back on her feet if money was the reason. She refused I think out of a sense of embarrassment - which was a shame for the DC as their life must have been turned upside down enough.

I also do another group, also a charity and we do similar but more 'officially' now - we have to get proof from someone that they are in difficulties/it would be of great benefit to the child to attend. And they have to agree to it being confidential. And I am sure some people in genuine hardship find the process off putting
The reason for this was a good few years ago (before I was involved) we had a family who were struggling to pay (although apparently parents could still afford fags and booze ) but it was about the child. After much negotiation etc the group decided to write some of the outstanding debt off, offer a discount and to accept payment in instalments. Not only did all the instalments not materialise they obviously shared this information with (bragged? to) another parent who was in a similar financial position. That parent then refused to pay any more - and I can see their point of view - I would object to feeling like I was subsidising someone if I was tight for money -there was a worry there was going to a bigger domino effect and at the time the charity was struggling to survive financially. It now takes payments more or less up front too... Some people may struggle more because of the actions of one selfish family!

As a brownie and guide leader I can affirm that we do know which are the genuine cases of hardship and we will go out of our way to apply to our district and area hardship funds as well as other avenues in order to make sure those girls get the chance to experience the same as their peers from more well off families.

My unit ran in a very impoverished area and lots of girls wouldn't join because of the cost. I funded uniform from eBay out of my own pocket and waived joining fees and subs for those who were in genuine need and for those who could afford a bit, they paid what they could afford even if it was just 50p a week.

The child very likely has no idea of the truth which is how it should be. I would stop hiding a situation you know nothing about

I do hope that those groups offering help get the help back at fundraising time, bag packs etc. At our bag packs there's always the same families missing!

I feel guilty about this all the time. My children had a terrible start to life and because of this they recieve cash at school (pp) even though I have a very good wage. So school pay for them to do things like after school clubs with their money and I feel guilty because I can afford it. I always pay for there school trips and either dh or I volunteer for the day.

I received a free school away trip at school for a few days. Only 18 went from the year but it was an amazing experience that the school thought I deserved (I was too in the year for the subject but my parents had no money ) . I still have residual guilt about that!

I've known a few wealthy people who think "can't afford it" means "oh, my money is all tied up in riding lessons/ eating imported cheese/ keeping my expensive house going/ manicures & pedicures/ paying the staff (cleaner, gardener, nanny, etc.)/ holidays". I figure these folk are just clueless and have no idea that they come off as freeloading clueless assholes to everyone else.
If you can afford horse/ piano/ ballet lessons for your kids then when it comes to something that you are less bothered about putting your hand in your back pocket to pay for, then they don't go, end of. Getting excursions and camps subsidised is for families in genuine need and for whom the experience is not one they would otherwise get without the help. The poster above who told the scout leader that money was the reason her child couldn't attend was a disingenuous freeloader as the decent thing to do would have been to tell the scout leader that it clashed with something else or they didn't want their kid attending or just let the other kid miss riding lessons for a few weeks or even ask to pay it off over several months and insist on doing so.

The little brownie was probably stretching the truth to hide her discomfort but yes, there are freeloading assholes everywhere - it must suck if your parent is one.

The funds exist to make sure the kids don't miss out. Schools and organisations usually have a pretty good handle on who genuinely can't afford and anyone who might be taking the piss. In any case the main point is to make sure that children don't miss out. If I could afford to pay the 80.00 I wouldn't begrudge help being offered to enable another child whose parents couldn't pay. It is highly unlikely that 1p was paid by the other family. They may have paid a token contribution of five or ten pound and had the rest paid by the group or hardship fund. It isn't easy to ask for help like this. I work in a school and many parents would prefer to take their kids out of school during trips or phone them in sick than pluck up the courage to write and ask for assistance. I think this is incredibly sad and I always really encourage people to ask for help. It is confidential to prevent other kids and parents making unfortunate and judgemental comments about it.

I'm a cub leader, to be honest we have no idea who does and doesn't pay for our trips and camps as it is dealt with by the group leader. He is very approachable, and any difficulties are dealt with by him. (I think he's a bit of a pushover, but we have the luxury of an income at our group)
That works well for us as we can just deal with the pastoral and fun stuff then.
It puts us in a much better position as leaders to be as inclusive as possible. We have a handful of very challenging kids, but they don't miss out on a thing.

I fully agree with schools covering the cost of school trips if a child's parents cannot afford to pay. These trips are part of the curriculum and cost should be a consideration when trips are planned as kids have to attend school. However, extra curricular stuff is not compulsory so really should not be subsidised unless a genuine case of hardship.

I have read the full thread and Duvet's subsequent comments, but still think she's taking the mickey.

We are going on a big summer holiday this year. I wouldn't dream of telling the school that we couldn't afford the skiing trip for dd. We're just spending our money in another way.

It's a poor message to send kids that they are entitled to go on any and every trip no matter how many others they're already going on, and if there isn't the money then someone else should pay. It's outrageous that a bunch of schmucks have to pay £50+ more to subsidise someone who is already having several other holidays!

Just read this thread. Health problems or not Duvet was still taking the piss. Sorry.

I agree, even with the drip feed, Duvet is taking the piss. I've also found that it's usually low income familys who will scrimp and save to send their kids on trips. The ones who have plenty of money are the ones who take voluntary contribution (i.e £1 donation towards a school trip costing £25) at face value.

Just went off to get dressed and still steaming about this! I can't imagine having the brass neck to tell the Guide leader we can't afford for dd to go on a trip to Switzerland this summer - well, I might say that we can't afford it, but to then accept the trip for free knowing that we were off on an expensive holiday already and that others would have to pick up the slack - I'd honestly feel hot and cold with shame that I was taking people for a ride.

'Some parents just won't pay for anything - and expect the school to stump up . I have first hand experience of this happening with swimming lessons, and with trips. It really is a problem as schools are instructed not to leave children out if parents can't afford whatever, and it would be heartless to do so. However, many school trips are 'extra curricular' - they are organised to enhance learning and give children better insight - and fun! There is very little money available for these extra outings, and this is why parents are asked to help. A coach hired to take primary children to a fairly local event costs around £1,000 - costs have shot up frighteningly over the past ten years due to rising insurance, petrol costs, seat belt fitting becoming compulsory and so on. Parents would ask, quite reasonably, why they should pay when Mrs X was boasting in the playground that she hadn't paid for anything. The answer is that if all parents refuse to pay, the school can't afford any trips and they just won't happen. If all parents paid there would be more trips. There is no 'spare cash' in a school budget, and children are often funded by the school fund - i.e. money raised by the school and parents. This cash really should not then be demanded by people who can often afford to pay but just won't. What is the answer?

My DGD's school has a policy of asking for a voluntary contribution for school trips,saying 'no-one will be excluded if they unable to pay'. Fair enough,I have no problem if someone genuinely cannot pay because they are struggling to get by on benefits,or have a low-paid job. However,there is one particular mother of a child in my DGD' class,who ALWAYS pleads poverty,as she is a single mum raising 4 kids on benefits. But that doesn't stop her going on a foreign holiday twice a year,with all the children (sometimes taking them out of school in term -time and possibly incurring fines for doing so),driving a pretty expensive new car and getting her nails and hair done every few weeks. I have no problem with anyone doing these things. I am not one of these people who thinks that people on benefits shouldn't ever treat themselves and live a life of deprivation,BUT to then say you cannot afford £5 or whatever for her child's school trip EVERY BLOODY TIME,makes my blood boil.

It's hard to define what is freeloading though. My friend is a SAHM to four school age and older children (she was a teacher before children). Her DH is a teacher on about £35k.

They apply for every charity fund going to enable their kids to do trips and extra curiculars, school hardship fund, local Lions group, she is always bragging to me how they get trips for free.

Thing is, while things might be a tad tight financially (though they also brag about their low mortgage) four kids on one wage is entirely their own choice. They simply choose to have the more relaxed lifestyle that comes from having a parent at home.

What really pisses me off (and I'm prepared to be told that I'm unreasonable here) is that her older kids will have less Uni debt that mine because they got an element of grant in with their loan, purely because only one parent chooses to work. And it is definitely a choice.

If this netter wants to take up political office they will have my vote

That's brilliant- few more folk like you (and that teacher) on the planet and we'd be a much happier society. Sadly, have seen quite a bit of what is being discussed here in primary school (irrespective of whether this story itself is true).
There is a very real sector that think because they don't have the latest magnet kitchen or patio heater then the world owes them a living/ a patio etc. It's just a fact of life.