To say your good fortune is down to luck....

[Shallowstreams]

On threads here I keep reading people saying how they've 'worked hard' and as such can pay off their entire mortgage by mid thirties or similar.

But most people work hard and that's a distant dream. It's only achievable to get and pay off a decent sized mortgage if you've had the luck in whatever shape or form to get an extremely high paying job or a very low mortgage perhaps because of family help or inheritance.

I work very hard and earn very well as does my husband yet our mortgage won't be paid off for many many years, and I'm almost 40.

It just annoys me that people seem to think they've managed to achieve this as they've worked harder than others and are not acknowledging the good fortune that has put them in this position

AIBU?

YABU OP

We have paid off a few mortgages now, no help from anywhere except a smallish inheritance that paid off the last bit of one.
All this on one low wage with a sahp.
We live frugally, always have and put all our spare cash into property.
Many years there wasn't spare cash, obviously the property had to wait for a while during these times.
The luck was not needing much of a deposit when we bought our first home. Not being too ill to be able to work, not being disabled and our kids not needing extra care.
The rest good management throughout the years.

I think it's usually a combination of hard work and luck.

However I do think there are some people who are lucky who don't see that they are lucky. One of DH's cousin's is 'lucky', but brags constantly about his hard work. His Mum won the pools and gave him a deposit for a flat, that was lucky. Five years later a major redevelopment took place in his area (that he and everyone else was unaware of when he bought). His flat sold for eight times what he'd paid for it which gave him the chance to buy a new place near his new job (timing was perfect) mortgage free and he also put himself through night school to get some qualifications then went part time whilst he went to university. Now I'm not saying for a second that he didn't work hard, but he wouldn't have been in the position to go to university if he hadn't been lucky with his first flat.

We get told we're lucky all the time because we have two mortgage free properties. Yes, DH was incredibly lucky to be widowed at 25 with a young child... And I was so lucky that my parents were abusive drug addicts and I was brought up by my grandparents who left me essentially orphaned in my early twenties. There is different kinds of luck.

BIL, however, had dyslexia that didn't get diagnosed until he was 15. He took night courses in literacy whilst working in shitty jobs that paid peanuts and treated him like shit. He then almost killed himself juggling jobs whilst studying at college and once he'd finished college he worked so many hours MIL was genuinely worried about him. He can truly say that his plumbing business and the rewards from it were all down to hard work. He didn't get any luck poor lad - twice companies he worked for went bust and he didn't get paid.

Its just so naively simplistic to suggest its one or the other! Some people work very hard, had less chances and don't do so well. Some people have special opportunities, some people have pure chance luck, some people have it all.
Some people defy the odds and some don't. Some people are in the right place at the right time and some aren't.
Mostly its a combination of many different factors.

For people who say that they weren't lucky to inherit as they lost a family member...of course a family member is much more important than money, and I'm sure you'd rather have them than their money. However, plenty of people (everyone, sooner or later) will lose relatives, and not all of those relatives have enough money to make you mortgage free. Getting money for nothing more than being born into a wealthy family is luck.

I also think a bit of both! I have been lucky in terms of inheriting some money, but I was also careful about my chosen career to ensure it was one with good prospects and money, and school holidays (I'm a teacher).

I think I am extremely lucky on a number of accounts:

a) I was born male
b) I was born white
c) I was born into a lower working class household with very high ambitions
d) I received a very good education
e) I'm British

If you stack all of those things up, I am probably as lucky as you can be.

It's a bit of both.

I think if you've inherited (a lot of) money, been to private school, 'helped' into great jobs etc, you almost certainly won't think you're lucky, but you clearly are.

Equally if you've had a reasonable start in life, but chosen to settle for a low paying job because you don't want to work beyond 9-5, or do any further study, or scrimp and save for a few years to get a mortgage, you'll think everyone who has a £40k job, own house and car, is lucky - when actually if you'd made different choices that could be you.

I do believe life's mostly what you make it. But some people do choose to think it's all down to luck, it's easier to view it in that way than to consider that you could have done more to improve your own position.

You see it a lot with siblings - in one family I know, 1 sibling has never been given any financial help by parents, the other 2 have (ever since teens/early 20s). The sibling who hasn't been helped owns their own home, has a well paying job now - but has been utterly broke too. The only difference is that he worked in any job to get on, did extra work, lived hand to mouth, which his siblings weren't prepared to, even though they had money given to them for further studies/ qualifications, to buy cars, house deposit etc. The 2 siblings would say the other was 'lucky' but can't see it's work not luck that is the difference between them!

YABU mostly, I don't personally know anyone who hasn't had to work to take advantage of the luck that has come their way. But at the same time just at the virtue of being born in this country the vast majority are far lucky than we ever acknowledge.

NewLife4Me: the luck was not needing much of a deposit at the time we bought our first home

That's a massive life changing piece of luck. You were born in the right place at the right time to be able to build up a property portfolio. I assume you are in an area where a two bed flat doesn't cost £450k that's luck too unless you moved there away from all family etc.

You need to find about £30k these days. Would up have easily paid off a few mortgages on one low income if you started now?

Of course luck is involved. I was born to parents who valued education. I went to university before tuition fees. I bought a house before prices rocketed, meaning we live in a house worth twice what we paid for it. I married somebody who is now high-earning so have been able to be a sahm while kids are small. I have healthy children. Sure, I worked insanely hard at school and got v high qualifications and a good job. But any one of those lucky things not having happened would mean my life would not be nearly as charmed as it now is.

Yabu, and massively off the mark.

When I was in my late teens early 20's, I worked 7 days a week to make money, as I loved both jobs, and liked the money.

I found another job which was shifts, and worked lots of weekends. Where everyone was going out every weekend, I saved money as was working the weekends. I bought my first house, I could have rented it out when I met Dh, but u sold it for twice what I bought it for.
We now have a tiny mortgage on a large house.

It's got nothing to do with luck, it's about making the right decisions at the time.

I'm not keen on people who moan about working hard, and are too busy looking at what other people have got 🍋

No one thinks you dont have to work hard to succeed, so why do people keep insisting that has been said?
Its hard work, good luck and a helping hand that are most likely to make you well off.
Hard work alone wont necessarily do it.

It's not as common, but some people can succeed without working hard at all. If you inherit a business or somesuch, or get a plum job by nepotism or a few other means.
Lets not pretend that everyone with money has worked their fingers to the bone.

Not luck in my case.

Left school at 15, couple of low paid jobs then I joined the Army. Served 24 years, got a gratuity when I finished and an immediate pension. It was bloody hard work for decent (but not pop star) wages.

DH, same job, same 'perks'

Average house, average mortgage amount. Paid off.

Not sure where the 'luck' comes into it. Sensible choices maybe, but no 'luck'

The gratuities

Agree luck and hard work generally both play a part.

If you are born bright then surely that is luck. Some people work extremely hard but just don't have the academic ability to earn the big £££.

If you don't have masses of family money then sure to make £££ you do have to work hard but even successful people will generally admit they had a bit of luck along the way. However, they will undoubtedly dealt with really bad luck/situations but had the 'grit' to carry on.

So I am on the fence. To be self made and successful you do have to work very hard but have probably had a little luck along the way.

OP my advice would be to spend some time counting your own blessings and looking for opportunities to improve your own circumstances, it's much more productive than trying to bring others down by pissing on their good fortune.

Going by this thread and similar ones, the haves are far more defensive than the have nots. So many people see criticism here where there is none.

I frequently see poverty and homelessness being put down to poor choices as well.

We paid off the mortgage at 37 with compensation when DH had a life changing accident because a stupid driver didn't concentrate.

I'm not sure I'd call a shattered knee and ankle 'lucky' but each to their own. Personally I'd rather still be paying the mortgage.

I freely admit that my not having a house with a mortgage is down to bad choices. I chose to sell the properties I had when the market looked like it might not be great, due to recession, however I think I would have had to be clairvoyant to have known that mortgage rates would be their lowest I have ever known them in the middle of the recession!

So, to the extent that my friends with huge mortgages overstretched themselves just at the right time, they made a 'good choice' (which is a combination of hard work and right circumstance). I made a 'bad one' and took myself off the property ladder.

Had mortgage rates gone the way they usually do in recessions (upwards) then all the good choice/lucky people would have suddenly looked like they made a bad choice.

It is all predicated on working hard as a baseline though, which I did and continue to do, despite not having a mortgage.

Well sometimes people end up in less than ideal circumstances due to bad choices, not always, but to say that is never the case is as misguided as saying people can't help themselves do well.

I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea that we all just end up where we are through luck as it completely negates the idea of personal responsibility.

abracadodle have some empathy.

Worked 32 hours a week during my degree (regular 3yr degree and got a first) and full time during my MA. I also worked THREE jobs (50 hours+ in the holidays) as a teen so that me family would let me go to college.
Yes, I had the brains, but I've worked bloody hard to be in the comfortable position I'm in.

It's both - I've had some lucky breaks, but I worked really hard to make the most of them and sacrificed time with my family to progress my career.

Combination of the two in most cases.

Like, a 'lucky' inheritance combined with sacrifice and hard work = nice house.