To say your good fortune is down to luck....

[Shallowstreams]

On threads here I keep reading people saying how they've 'worked hard' and as such can pay off their entire mortgage by mid thirties or similar.

But most people work hard and that's a distant dream. It's only achievable to get and pay off a decent sized mortgage if you've had the luck in whatever shape or form to get an extremely high paying job or a very low mortgage perhaps because of family help or inheritance.

I work very hard and earn very well as does my husband yet our mortgage won't be paid off for many many years, and I'm almost 40.

It just annoys me that people seem to think they've managed to achieve this as they've worked harder than others and are not acknowledging the good fortune that has put them in this position

AIBU?

"Most of us agreeing that's it's a mixture of hard work and luck "

No, I don't think hard work has much to do with it. It depends on the sector you're working in, of course. If you have your own business, the more you work you may earn more, if you're also smart about developing the business, but if you're an employee in a job that doesn't lead to promotion, no amount of hard work will make you a higher earner.
There are plenty of people who happen to be good at certain things - I.T. for example, who work normal 9 to 5 hours and still make very good money because their skills are valued in the marketplace. They don't have to work hard to make the money, whereas someone who is a cleaner will not be well off no matter how many hours of cleaning they do.

"If I hadn't worked hard at school to get good grades, worked hard at uni to get my degree, I would never have got a good graduate job."

OK, but some people do well at uni without working hard as it comes naturally to them. For them, it would all be luck.

Hard work is essential. But being born to parents who can support you well enough and give you a positive hardworking outlook is also important.
Success does seem to breed success and maybe some of this is down to psychology.
I was supported as a child and my close friend wasn't, she was more intelligent. My outcomes were much better.
For me parenting was more important than schooling.

We have worked just as hard as most but we have made our money work very hard. We are lucky we bought property when we did.
My dsis (who gave up work when her dc were born and never returned) and dbil were left a huge inheritance - they were very 'lucky' as they were the only living people mentioned in the will. A few years before they would've got nothing.
I think real luck involves good health we are lucky that our DS was born in a time when he gets free medical treatment for his condition and our Dps are still with us and have each other in their 80's.

I think real luck involves good health

I agree.

You take it for granted when you have it, and only miss it when it's gone or compromised.

I see people with incomes of around 60k per year wasting money on weekly supermarket crap, coffees, takeaways

That is there choice and that's fine

But when they then moan that they have no money

I earn under half of what they do and have managed my money in a different way so I do have money and small outgoing to increase disposable income and have saved.

That's my choice but I have engineered a situation to bring me financial stability - it wasn't luck it was thought out and acted out for a desired outcome.

Yabu op

Of course its partly luck, which is sometimes just the absence of bad luck.

Its great that your husband started a business, and it was successful because he worked hard, but all it would have taken in the early days was for him to have an accident so he couldnt work for those crucial weeks, or have an early client delay or refuse to pay, or have the works van unexpectedly need an expensive repair that you couldnt afford, or be broken into and the tools stolen. Its not the case that new businesses only ever fail because the owners simply didnt work hard enough. Its luck that you have abilities that you can turn into a business at all.

In fact, even just meeting your husband was luck, when something as small as turning left instead of right would have meant youd never met. I often think of all the great holidays I could have had with two incomes, I'd certainly have a much smaller mortgage.

I don't take health for granted. Nothing (except perhaps the lives of the children) is as important o me. If I'm ill nothing else matters. So I only drink water. I don't eat junk food and do a heap of other things to try to ensure I stay healthy. Bikram yoga. No smoking ever. no drugs. No chocolate. Plus of course all the wonderful things you can eat and are delicious to make you healthy.

Okay so let's analyse law. I agree I was lucky to be born clever enough to pass the exams. However that was partly because my parents married each other and both had very high IQs 140+ rather than marrying someone not very bright. That was their conscious choice to marry assortively at university stage. Secondly I agree I was lucky my parents put a lot of effort into us. they put off babies for over 10 years until they could afford it unlike many people - so that wasn't luck on their part, it was their conscious choice but I was lucky they were my parents, yes.

So then I'm born and raised with intelligent parents. However plenty of people have my IQ or are not very bright but pretty enough to marry a well off man (women get two chances in life and men usualyl only one to be well off - their own career and marrying someone who earns a lot). Then I worked hard at school. Lots of people don't choose to do that. Friends woudl be out at discos and I'd be revising, entering competitions, scholarships etc etc, cycling to the library - conscious effort as a teenager. Yes luck that I have a brain but also as much effort as intelligence. You need both.

Then plenty of people mess around at univesrity,. I worked very hard, didn't drink, didn't have sex, won prizes, was just about top of the year. All those other just as clever people there didn't manage that because they made choices which meant they didn't win the university prizes - more fool them.

User164etc.. Marrying a high IQ individual is no guarantee that your children will also have high IQs. Relatives of mine did that, the baby was born with a disability and has learning difficulties.
Having said that, luck plays a part, but I do believe that you can go a long way to making your own luck too, and hard work is a major factor in how people get on in life.

For me it's a combination of luck - (lucky in the uterus lottery to be born in a developed country with NHS and free university education when I attended in the 1980s), work and taking risks. Dh and I have lived overseas for over 20 years - this was a risk we took and it does mean we have no debts and if we came back to the UK could buy a house for without a mortgage.
I don't think Dh and I have worked harder than anyone else (although we have worked hard - completing professional exams while working full time) it's the risks we have taken that have made the difference. Was it luck that the risk worked out? Possibly - but also an element of not giving up even during the really crap times when you just want to howl, scream and come home!

I agree, its not solely luck but it does play a big part of it.

Ive an inlaw who firmly believes its hard work and everyone else doesn't work hard enough. He comes from a very middle class family, he has engaged, educated parents, who spent and spend the time advising him on his choices as well as supporting him in his choices. He believes he's self made through hard work, he's self made through his parents hard work and being in the right place the right time, couple that with hard work and you've someone who has a pretty comfortable life.

The biggest single factor is to be born without and remain without significant disability.

This pisses me of to my mil is very rich and says this all the fucking time

When in fact she came from a very modest background did one term as a nglish teacher then married my fil then never worked again so it fact all she really was marry Somone very wealthy

I wouldn't call working for one term in a grammar school working hard yes she raised four children however she had the help of two sets of grandparents a nanny and a cleaner

My ds will likely have a house by 20 and God willing paid in full by 30 it will be partly his hard work but make no mistake it will be our carful planning

For example he is starting an appership in September and we will be taking half the wage to go into a housing Isia so by the time he is 19 he will have enough plus what we have already saved for him to get a small bungalow

Cats my DS too! He's got an apprenticeship all ready for when he leaves school next month and first thing he is doing is opening a help to buy isa. Added to his savings he will be able to hopefully buy a small house with decent deposit by his mid twenties.

God, your life mapped so that you have paid for a small bungalow by the time you're 30. How depressing.

I have several friends who claim to be self-made through hard work and that 'you make your own luck.'

That's all well and good to say that but taking just one as an example; he forgets that his parents and grand parents were very well off and gave him a priviliged up-bringing, a good education, a car when he was 17 (and paid for lessons), board free living and the deposit for a house which they then furnished (white goods included).

I think a lot of people forget that your starting point/circumstances of birth often determine how well you do in life even if you do work hard and make good decisions. They just don't see it because to them, it's the norm and they can't imagine really starting from nothing.

Partly luck, partly hard work.

Also attitude I think. I know many people who think they're 'unlucky' yet really have nothing to grumble about. So down in the dumps! People need to cheer up and be happy with their lot IMO

So when DH stared his business while working he spoke to top management about what he was doing otherwise he would have lost his job. He explained that he was looking to do this venture because he saw an opportunity that his employer had passed on but really believed in it. They came back and said they wanted 49% of the business. We agreed to that but neigotiated clauses to allow us to buy their half of the business at various time and development points. They also provide our line of credit.

We went one step further, we started by renting a facility. We wanted to buy our own facility but HQ said no. Well we set up a company wholly owned by us that owns the land and buildings. We charge the jointly owned company the same rent as the prior lease. We could have continued renting but this would have left us vulnerable to rent increases. It also gives is more power at the neigotiating table with his employer. You could say we are lucky. I don't think spending hours and hours pouring over legal terms, development fund information, applying for grants and doing umpteen sight visits is luck. It was my idea to buy the land and build a facility. We couldn't afford it but there are places already up and operating so I asked around to find out how they did it. I found out that the government give grants to attract employers to areas with high unemployment/ drug addiction (directly correlated with underemployment).

I applied for numerous grants. The first grant I applied for I commically got everything wrong. When we were rejected I went in person to ask why we were rejected. That person sat with me for half an hour and told me what was wrong. I asked if I could resubmit with those changes and the director agreed. We were rejected again. I visited again and made further changes before resubmitting. We were then approved, I think largely because they knew I wasn't going to take no for an answer.

So yes I flew from NYC to Ohio while heavily pregnant, with one baby and then while pregnant with my 2nd and holding the baby to get this done. I was absolutely exhausted because I was also studying for my CPA exams and at the start I was also working 50hrs a week in my regular job.

To say we are lucky to own our facility is not a true reflection of reality. We put a lot of effort into finding a way for us to own a facility. Yes it's half way across the country but it's not affordable for us to operate locally to where we live in NJ. On the surface people may think we are lucky but we have made so many mistakes. We bought machinery for $2m that we had to scrap because it kept breaking down. We had to operate a third shift to fulfill orders. We also have one child who is disabled. It is incredibly hard but also gives us motivation to grow our business and buy that 49% because worst case this business will provide for our son if he can't hold down a regular job.

So if you think we are lucky I strongly disagree. We have made excellent choices and made the most of what we have. We don't let life's hiccups get in the way. Our health is important. My baby is 8 weeks old and my weight puts my BMI in the obese category. I went to the doctor this week because I know it isn't healthy. It must come off. My doctor agrees and told me that because I had preeclampsia with my first, being obese plus my history means there is a 50% chance I will have high blood pressure requiring medication in 10 years and I have a high risk of a heart attack. So yes I'm doing something about it now to reduce that risk.

If you believe in luck, you have an external locus of control and believe that things juat happen to you. People with an external locus of control often have a more negative outlook which means negativity breeds negativity=vicious cycle/self fulfilling prophecy. If you have an internal locus of control, you believe that you're in control and can make decisions and choices which actively change your life. You will also have a more positive outlook which means that positivity often breeds positivity. It's not luck. It's all in your hands.

Statistically the SINGLE biggest factor as to whether you will be wealthy or not is if you are born into or marry into a wealthy family. It outstrips ANYTHING else by miles - hard work, luck, attitude, endeavour, ability, intelligence, health etc. I think it is accountable for about 70% of your life opportunities (I would have to go back and find the old research paper on it but that is about right).

Stop kidding yourself. The wealthier your parents are the more likely you are to be wealthy. It's that simple.

Also, I love this cartoon which sums that up beautifully.

thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate (hope my link works)

papa, said exactly my thoughts but better above. If you think it's all down to luck you do yourself and your children down. If you think we have some say in how things turn out then you tend to do better. Even those who did well because of wise choices and hard work know luck plays a part.

It is interesting hearing people's stories.
To suggest it's dull that two boys are getting apprenticeships and buying bungalows is a shame. Good for those boys. The bottom line is those of us who planned their career and life (I did aged 14) tend to be happier and do better so it's a wise thing to do. Eg I wanted a lot of chidlren ergo I married a 21. if you want a lot you don't get started on them at 39. I wanted a good career - therefore I didn't give up full time work when I had babies.

And now my 50s I want a healthy old age so I am doing a lot of things which are likely to make that happen.

Yes if your parents are wealthy you are likely to be wealthy -0 although it's all relative - what is wealthy? But it's not that hard to do reasonably well and better than m any others in the UK just be dint of actually turnining up to work, tkaing risks, taking opportunities and working harder than others. In a sense you could argue we are very lucky so many people are quite lazy and also think they will never be up to much because it's just down to luck as that means those of us with a different mental attitude can seize all the opportunities from under their noses.

I can't believe that many people think that it's all down to luck, tbh.

Just as I don't think many believe it's all down to hard work.

An element of luck (or absence of bad luck) can grease the wheels and enable all that hard work, wise choices, risk & effort to pay off.

A positive attitude is a massive bonus too, but even that can be rocked when you hit a bad patch of concurrent life events.

Everybody should be forced to listen to 'Sunscreen' by Baz Lurhmann at least once every few years.

It is brilliant!

Extracts pertinent to this thread:

^*Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth
You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth^ until they've faded, but trust me, in 20 years, you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall...how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked^
*^
^*The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind
The kind that blindsides you at 4 p.m. On some idle Tuesday^^
*^
Don't waste your time on jealousy
Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind
The race is long and in the end, it's only with yourself

^Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much
Or berate yourself either
Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's^

^Don't expect anyone else to support you
Maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you'll have a wealthy spouse
But you never know when either one might run out^