To ask how you afford private school fees

[Elephantslovetofly]

We have a young DD, and although it's a while away yet we are thinking about school. The area we live in does not have a good local school, and we are considering an independent school for her

Disclaimer - I went to a private school and for what it's worth had a great education. I enjoyed being there and did well in exams. I believe my parents decided to send me there also because of a lack of a good local state school. I might have done fine at a state school, but will never know I guess

We are probably 45 min drive from the school I went to - further than is ideal. DH doesn't mind driving her there if we decide to send her there though (if she is fortunate enough to get a place)

The issue is whether we can afford it. The fees are about £9k per year for junior and £12k for senior. Assuming we therefore need to find £1k per month for fees

My cheeky question is this - if you have a child at private school, what does your household earn and how difficult is it to find the money each month to pay the fees? Our income is about £60k, and at the moment I don't think we can do it (along with our other current expenses). Wages might go up a bit before we would need to start paying, but if this is always going to be a pipe dream i'd rather get over it now

I know we could move closer to a good state school, but am exploring my options at this stage. Don't really want to move, as we have a good house here and are settled

Thanks for reading

How is this even up for debate?

Well because apparently you don't know the difference between opinion and fact. Because you present ill-informed views as some kind law and expect people to agree with you. The result is 'debate' of a kind, though not a very interesting one.

I am old now but when young used to be quite left wing. One of the things -really the biggest thing - that put me off this was realising that despite claims that they were motivated by compassion, desire for equality etc what so many people on the left are actually motivated by is hostility. They hate so many people. Hence Jeremy Corbin snuggling up to Sinn Fein, Hamas etc; these people are the betes noires of the Home Counties and God knows if you're from Surrey you should be strung up. Threads like this bring these people out and show them at their worst. They gave no coherent vision; just hate.

Pirate

We pay less than this, I know families who don't pay anything and have free school meals, uniform and transport at dd school, I know it's different but still a private school.
We could never afford to pay the fees, they are more than 1.5 x our income.
Some would say we were playing the system because with all the assistance available many could still not afford to go. The system happens to fit our financial situation, we got lucky.

Do I feel guilty as used to have such high opinions on private schools?
do I as hell as like, my dd education comes first. The guilt I have is I never saw all this/ couldn't change anything for our older children.

I don't think there's a school private or state which is truly accessible to anyone, btw

" It's absolutely none of anybody else's business how you spend your money and what choices you make for your Dd"

It's society's business when children are treated so unfairly in relation to something as important as education, and where the structures which permit this unfairness are defended and perpetuated by the most privileged members of the society and the political establishment, who use private schools as a means of entrenching advantage within their families.

You can't morally defend structural inequalities in the education system on the basis that it's good for your child.

That's interesting NewLife and if memory serves me you are in the same area of the country as me. I can hazard a guess as to which school you may be referring to and if I'm right, nobody in their right mind would turn down that opportunity for their dc.

My child is not a structure. My child is someone who one day I will have to leave on his own to face the world. And he was not born with the equipment to make the best job of that. You tell me the structural change I can make to cure that for him and those like him and I'll make it til. Til then I'll do my best to get the best outcome for him til my dying breath. And no amount of left wing wank will stop me.

Don't me so pompous minifingerz You have no right whatsoever to tell anybody what choices they should make for their child, as long as it's not illegal. I don't like the inequality between state and private and I say that as a state educated person myself but don't presume the moral high ground against parents who choose to send their dc to one school as opposed to another,

and another thing *minifingerz8 if society gives so much of a shit about inequality why doesn't it get royally fucked off that the LEA near me sends no children to Oxbridge and will soon have NO A level provision for it's children? That is the real bloody scandal.

"I don't think there's a school private or state which is truly accessible to anyone, btw"

Oh come off it.

Get real. About 99% of comprehensive schools take impoverished, low achieving kids. Sometimes many, sometimes fewer depending on whether they are selecting by catchment or using fair banding/lottery systems. But NO private school will offer a place to a poor low achieving child. (Unless it is an SEN school)

So how's that for fairness and inclusivity: the children who make up the majority of all state school pupils - namely middle or low achievers with no special gifts in music, sport etc from families too poor to pay private school fed, entirely shut out of the private sector. Not one of these pupils would be welcome or offered a place.

You are massively deluded if you are trying to argue that there is any comparison. There are a tiny, tiny handful of state schools which have no truly poor low achieving children. Some of the church schools are disgraceful in the way they cherry pick, and some state grammars take disproportionate numbers of kids from private preps, but the view that there are many comprehensives schools which are comparable to private schools in their failure to be inclusive - just utter rubbish.

Where in the UK are you minifingersz? You do know there is a huge variance in funding for state education depending on where you live. Those mumsnetters in London and the home counties are benefiting from very high levels of funding per pupil while other parts of the UK, such as the LEA i referred to earlier are being left to rot. That's why it's really not on to lambast posters about their 'choices.'

mini

I have no idea what you are on about.
I stated a fact, all schools are selective in some way. You can't just register for any school, anywhere.

But NO private school will offer a place to a poor low achieving child. (Unless it is an SEN school)

Well that's nonsense for a start, there are a many private schools specifically for 'low achieving' children.

State schools are geographically selective, as they don't accept students outside their catchment area. You may be lucky enough to be born in area with good schools, or you may not. The wide diversity of the quality and funding of state schools is inherently unfair.

But mini they do offer places to the high achievers from poorer backgrounds. You know that group who are roundly forgotten in the actual comprehensive system, rather than your unrealistic view of it? It's all very well for a bunch of mc wannabe socialists to sit around patting themselves on the back because their dc are getting a suitable education, and therefore they'll generously sacrifice the education of dc like mine under the pretence it is an unavoidable means to supporting their less able social peers. I do apologise if my failure to buy into the secondary modern for all philosophy, and my desertion from the path so kindly offered by the state system has offended your tender sensibilities. But not to worry, there's plenty of other able poorer kids that will be failed, because the comprehensive systems failing of the working class is condoned by so many who are too busy getting their m&s knickers in a twist about private.

Some state schools like to be selective too. If they are academies they can do this and it does happen.

'Jeremy Corbin (sic) snuggling up to Hamas?' Yes, you're right Karlos, threads like this really do bring 'these people' out, don't they ....

Karlos. You say: "They gave no coherent vision; just hate."

And yet you are the one talking about 'left wing wank' and Jeremy Corbyn snuggling up with hamas' etc.

I respect and accept your views but disagree deeply with them. I am sorry for your son, by the way, and of course you would do what you feel is the best for him. However, those of us who have questions / objections when it comes to private education absolutely also have the right to be treated with respect when we express our views.

Telling someone they are motivated by hatred or jealousy is not treating their views with respect. I for one live a life that I'm very happy with; jealousy is not part of my horizon (not in terms of private education but more generally), it just doesn't figure. I'm just happy living my life and making it meaningful. My arguments on this thread and my views on private education are motivated by 3 things 1) my own very negative experiences in private school all through my childhood 2) my work with disadvantaged children where I see various aspects of all these systems and how deeply, deeply unfair and unequal they are everyday and 3) my reading, political beliefs, thoughts, discussions etc.

Not hatred & jealousy but thinking.

I wish you the best in any case for your son.

I think you need to carefully consider what you want DD1 to get out of it, and whether you're willing to scrimp and save for the next 11 years of your life, assuming you only have one child. I have two DC and could technically afford the fees but we'd be living on lentils. They're at a very good state school and I can afford all the after school/martial arts/dance classes they want, and take them on foreign holidays etc. Think about the expected benefits and decide if they're worth it.

Castigating state schools for not adopting ABA Therapy is just ridiculous.

mini is perfectly entitled to express any views just as most of us are free to disagree with them. It's always interesing to hear views from different people. I call it love to give your children cuddles, a good education, good food and good care. I don't hate those who think you should sacrifice your children for your principles and nor do I suggest that all state schools are worse than all private schools. All parents should choose schools with care.

I do think if women and your teenage daughters can choose careers carefully to ensure they have the choice and power that a higher incojme brings then that tends to be a good thing. There is nothing better than a good education for girls to advance both society and children and cultures which want to keep women down tend to do it by denying girls education. It was only back in about the 1880s that the school one of my daughters went to - NLCS offered for the first time in the UK an academic education to girls which boys got; other schools gave girls needlework, home economics, flower arranging and the like. Miss Beale and Miss Buss who founded the school offered them more.

Some people think private schools are no better than state schools (and indeed some private schools are not). Others even though they think private schools are better for political reasons prefer state schools. Others of us have no political problems with choosing a better school whether by house price in the state sector, academic selection with a grammar school 11+ or paying school fees. All part of life's rich pattern and the variety of people in the UK......

Actually, there is a state school in London which does use ABA therapy. I think it should be used more widely because it's an actual curriculum (unlike TEACCH)

I think the real concern is that while only 7% of the population is privately educated, they are disproportionately represented in positions of power and influence which suggests there is a lack of equality in accessing these positions.

Or rich people work harder ...

A lot of the judges, consultants etc who are now in their 50s would have gone to grammar & direct grant schools. My dcs go to private schools in London and lots of the British parents went to state schools.

I think the real concern is that while only 7% of the population is privately educated, they are disproportionately represented in positions of power and influence which suggests there is a lack of equality in accessing these positions.

I actually agree with this ChipStix. I think it is worth teasing out why this is so. I actually don't think it is down to naked advantage and snobbery. I think it really does have something do with the fact that the education is superior. So, for me, I want to understand why in the hopes of replicating it and scaling it.

80k, contacts and confidence?

I would like to apologise to Karlos for being insulting, bad form, sorry.
A combination of frustration and Sauvignon Blanc (half term ) not on.

These discussions always stumble when sensible posters know that it's difficult to say anything robust about all schools in a sector. However, even small average differences in the education provided in the sectors could easily account for the difference we see in occupants of very selective positions. So in the full knowledge that my experience isn't data, but to explain my hunch: I suspect such average differences may exist, because of what I see comparing the schools I know. In the independent school I know best, the most able children (by which I mean not just the top 10%, but even the outliers) are challenged at their level in every subject in pretty much every lesson and work consistently hard. In the (excellent, sought after) state school I know best, challenge at their level for the most able students is an occasional treat: most of the time in most subjects, though they may be working conscientiously, they're doing so at work that doesn't really stretch them. That adds up, over the years, both in terms of what they can do, and in terms of how familiar challenge is.

Whether or not it accounts for the over-representation of independently educated people in high places, it's what I find worth paying for.

It's not cheap, though: providing that challenge is work for teachers, and it's much more work if you have 30 in your class than if you have 15. (Not just because you're more likely to have an outlier in a larger class, but because you probably have the additional constraint of not being able to take so much 1-1 time with your outliers.) That's without looking at the marking load, and without bringing in any questionable assumptions about behaviour.

I think it's important to distinguish between good schools and good teachers and good education. I have no reason to doubt that the management and teachers in the state schools I'm talking about are just as good as in the independent one, but I can see that the education isn't as good.

People who get better education are more likely to succeed.