To ask how you afford private school fees

[Elephantslovetofly]

We have a young DD, and although it's a while away yet we are thinking about school. The area we live in does not have a good local school, and we are considering an independent school for her

Disclaimer - I went to a private school and for what it's worth had a great education. I enjoyed being there and did well in exams. I believe my parents decided to send me there also because of a lack of a good local state school. I might have done fine at a state school, but will never know I guess

We are probably 45 min drive from the school I went to - further than is ideal. DH doesn't mind driving her there if we decide to send her there though (if she is fortunate enough to get a place)

The issue is whether we can afford it. The fees are about £9k per year for junior and £12k for senior. Assuming we therefore need to find £1k per month for fees

My cheeky question is this - if you have a child at private school, what does your household earn and how difficult is it to find the money each month to pay the fees? Our income is about £60k, and at the moment I don't think we can do it (along with our other current expenses). Wages might go up a bit before we would need to start paying, but if this is always going to be a pipe dream i'd rather get over it now

I know we could move closer to a good state school, but am exploring my options at this stage. Don't really want to move, as we have a good house here and are settled

Thanks for reading

But the point is surely that a school should be honest from the outset on the point of whether they have the resources to meet a child's needs. I looked at a school recently which admitted in its literature that it is not equipped to meet the needs of children with complex profiles.

The time to decide whether they can meet the child's needs is before, not after enrolment and the family have paid registration fees etc.

Parents would be able to claim discrimination in such circumstances.

Thanks HarryElephante – you made me laugh. I wonder if some other posters on here are taking the piss too

Rather than discriminating against children with SEN, surely indep schools are telling parents that their children's needs will be better met in the state system? Indep schools cannot provide the same levels of in class support and pp was right that teaching staff are often not as well trained in SEN because we do not regularly deal with these issues. At our school we have pupils with SEN who are thriving and others whom I know would be better off elsewhere but parents are not prepared to move them.

It is naive to say that SEN needs should be assessed before admission to prevent these problems as pupils' needs are changeable, not fixed.

Re. Helicopters and polo fields - there are some mega-wealthy families at our school but the majority are hardworking professional people who are prepared to make sacrifices but this is a priority for them.

Im afraid not Lottielou, the argument they put up is that they are not selective and do not realise until they have the child there what their needs are. This is despite me being totally open and honest with them, offering them paed reports and SALT reports and inviting them to get in touch with his last setting which they chose not to do before we signed on the dotted line.

Morally, it is disgusting and have written to the governors about the way this has been done but legally they can do what they like.

If you know any loopholes in the law, I would love to know them together with the thousands of parents this happens to everyday.

*because not but

The time to decide whether they can meet the child's needs is before, not after enrolment and the family have paid registration fees etc.

Sadly not always possible. How do you anticipate the future needs of a five-year-old? Many additional needs don't present until a child is much older - in fact I'd go so far as to say that only a tiny minority of children with additional needs have a diagnosis even by seven.

I looked at a school recently which admitted in its literature that it is not equipped to meet the needs of children with complex profiles.

That sounds like an honest school and I respect their transparency. However, many small private schools are under enormous financial pressure and, bluntly, need bums on seats.

2boys, I divide the year' s fees by 12 (and same for my likely tax and VAT liabilities) and pay that sum into a separate bank account each month and did that with the mortgage until recently after 30 years I paid it off. (I have been paying scool fees now continuously for 28 years and counting - lots of children and big age range, although next year will be the last when the twins leave, but I will fund them at university so it's not over until that's over).

I have never had a problem paying school fees out of my current income as I've always worked full time. Some people do save fees up in advance but I don't think most people do. They just see it as an extra cost eg £12k fees a year div. 12 is £1k a month (one child).

(Harry, very funny... although to be fair many parents at private schools do cut back on stuff state school parents take for granted like expensive cars and holidays.)

Personally I don't think private schools are the best place for many children with SEN. Perhaps for some it's the right thing but generally the staff are not understanding enough or trained sufficiently. Not to mention that they expect you to pay extra on top of the fees for LSA.

I can of course see that a 5 year olds needs may change. But there's no excuse at senior school level. Unless the parents are dishonest.

Helicopters and polo fields - there are some mega-wealthy families at our school but the majority are hardworking professional people who are prepared to make sacrifices but this is a priority for them.

Hardworking professional people who make sacrifices are not the exclusive domain of the middle classes.

Plenty of working class people I know are hard working people who make daily sacrifices for their children. But this still does not afford them to send their children to private school.

It's slightly off-topic and I realise I have misrepresented what you have said there somewhat but, by joves, that particular view grinds my gears!

Actully as I live in a very nouveau riche area the majority of parents at our local private schools are working class, builders, plumbers and many other businesses. Class and money don't necessarily overlap in the UK. In fact if you want to divide by class around here then you move to the state grammars in Bucks and if you want children mixing with tradespeople's children you pay school fees........

However I certainly accept Harry's point that parents of all classes who even with both parents working full time on say the minimum wage each cannot afford to send their children to a £12k a year private school although plenty around here pay for the much cheaper religious schools. Islamia girls' school not far from where my daughter lives in London is private school and gets fairly good results - "School Tuition Fees for 2016-2017 intake are £6,900 per academic year". www.islamiaschools.com/

We both work, and we have an otherwise very modest lifestyle.

We have put five children through the system, and for a few of these years received about 50% fee remission for three of them. We did increase our mortgage a bit during the most expensive years.

Now we are down to the last two so can breathe again.

Sounds like you are happy to live in your area but not send your kid to the local school? What do you think your neighbours and their kids would think your feelings were about them?
I would assume that you look down on me and my children. Your kids would not play much with local kids and their days would be two hours longer and for what? Giving your kid the idea that she's better than her neighbours?
Complicated situation obviously but wouldn't it be better to go to the local school and try to make the local school and area better rather than just sticking two fingers up at it because it's somebody else's problem?

OP, also 45 minutes commute each way is a long day for all concerned and while she is little. Also, my eldest now says he wishes he had gone locally as he has no local friends to hang around with casually. I make huge efforts for playdates and sleepovers and there are activity programmes available but he would love to be able to just meet up in the park or go off on his bike with friends in the village. It did not bother him when he was younger but now in Year 6 it really does.

I am not being anti-private, on the contrary my eldest is having a great private education and for him we could not be happier but there is a life outside school as well.

As well as the fees, unless you are passing by anyway your petrol and car costs are going to whack up as well.

Harryelephante - as you are fully aware, you have misrepresented my statement of fact as a classist comment.

The thread is about how people pay school fees, not the unfairness of the system or whether there are ways for working class families to send their children to indep schools. For the record, I come from a farming family and consider myself very lucky to have received a fully-funded place at an indep school on two scholarships (music and academic), a school bursary and a government assisted place. I now oversee a bursary fund to ensure that there are places available at the same school for pupils from similar backgrounds. I didn't mention it earlier as it wasn't relevant to the question but am now giving it as something else for you to stick in your gears and grind upon.

Have I touched a nerve, baggy? It wasn't my intention. I will admit to being a little unsure of the point you are trying to make in your second para, though. Maybe if I understood it, it might grind my gears!

But, the very fact this thread exists highlights the unfairness of the system. You can't get away from it; it's the elephant(e) in the room. People discussing how many sacrifices they have to make to ensure their children have a half-decent shot at life. When, to others, it's delivered on a silver platter?

The fact money dictates how good a education you receive is really quite damning. Money should have nothing to do with it. In my most humblest of opinions, anyway.

Money does not have to have anything to do with the education you get, it is about self motivation and supportive parents.

Both my DH and myself went to piss poor schools in one of the most socially deprived parts of the country. We both went to Oxbridge through hard work and it was so rare where we came from it made the local paper! Both sets of parents were very wary of us going as they felt people like us don't belong there but at the same time very proud. We both had the piss taken out of us for being swots but it was banter.

Anyone can get a great education if they put their minds to it.

moo if any of my friends and neighbours thought that I would view it as the inverted snobbery it is, and consider them hugely insecure if they took it as a personal slur. Luckily my friends and neighbours are logical and therefore know it's about taking advantage of the opportunity of Dd's school, rather than avoiding them, and are intelligent enough to reason it has sweet fa to do with being 'better'. Round here we tend to be happy for each other when someone has a chance at something, rather than acting like jealous 5yr olds who don't want anyone else to have something we don't.

I agree that moving for secondary schools is a much better plan than moving for primaries.

I went to prep school, then went back in to the state system as parents divorced. We can't afford to send our DC privately so it's not an issue for us. DH has a good salary but we'd need an extra 60k a year to make it affordable with the DC. We might consider it for sixth form though.

I have friends who went private and state and really there isn't a massive difference in what they are doing with careers. Some state schoolers doing really well and some private not big high earners.

Don't panic, I agree that it seems scary but if you can move to be near good state schools, I'd do it. Save the money now and then you have your options open. Three years at a state school (moving her for Junior years) is not going to be the end of the world.

Oh and yes, I have friends who teach in both sectors and they say the thing that makes the biggest impact on children's outcomes is the parental support.

Anyone can get a great education if they put their minds to it.

Okay. Tell that to the kid from the deprived and broken family who doesn't how to learn and has no family support network and is surrounded by poverty and addiction. Or even one of those circumstances.

"Don't worry, chap, just put your mind to it. Anyone can get a great education!"

Hell, maybe they'd even be in the paper because how much of the exception they are to the rule!

But, Bella, did it occur to you while you were at Oxbridge, just how relatively few people came from your sort of background? It certainly jarred with me.

But, I'll step away from this thread now. I am not sure I am adding anything to it...

Sorry for any offence!

Why does going to the sort of school 93% of the population goes to "seem scary" or need the advice "don't panic"?

"Anyone can get a great education if they put their minds to it."

I don't think I'm even going to start with this one........

Oh and yes, I have friends who teach in both sectors and they say the thing that makes the biggest impact on children's outcomes is the parental support.

What about children at boarding school? Do they all flunk? Or, in this case, does it come down to parental financial support?!

And, anyway, exam results would also fly directly in the face of this argument.

As for wealth/class of parents it differs hugely from school to school.

DS is at a very academic London private school and the parents come from all walks of life. Yes some are loaded but there are plenty of normal families living in small flats, driving old cars etc... and scrimping to pay the fees.

DD is at a less academic local prep (for now) and the parents are much swankier. The school run is a sea of new Range Rovers, dads in Maseratis, porsches etc... Skiing at Feb half -term, long haul beach holidays at Easter and in October plus summers at second homes in the Med are completely the norm. Fathers are bankers, hedge fund managers, property investors, city lawyers or titled with inheritances. Mothers don't work as they don't need to, but have nannies and housekeepers too so that they are free to spend all day with their personal trainers, playing tennis or shopping in Knightsbridge. It sounds like a cliché but it absolutely is like this.

I suspect it's because people with pots of cash automatically go private so don't tend to worry so much how good the school actually is. Those who are struggling spend their money more carefully so are more inclined to make sure they are actually getting value for it.

If you are paying, you get the luxury of choice so as long as you do your research you should be able to find a school with the social mix you want. And if you get it wrong (as we have with DD) then you pick another one and move them.