DH has hidden some heavy stuff...AIBU to want to separate?

[mummymalta]

3 weeks ago DH revealed some very personal things which I feel I should have known before we got married. To be honest, we are all entitled to secrets and personal experiences I suppose, but where do you draw the line?

DH and I have been together for 10 years and married for 7. He's my best friend, I feel like I knew and loved him so much. Affirming these things is very strange to me. We were solid.

A "friend" of DH from the country he used to live in came to a party of a mutual friend of ours. Lets call him Bob. I don't know Bob, DH has only mentioned him briefly and my friend knows him but not well. He came with my friends brother who he is sort of close to. DH didn't want to come to the party (long day) and didn't know Bob would be there. I kissed the kids and ran out the house desperate for freedom on a friday night went to the party.

Get to the party and was enjoying child free time when my friends brother came over to say hi with Bob. "Bob you haven't met DH's wife have you? it's been about 12 years right? "
Bob: "Holy shit - you know I barely remember those days"
He then made a slick comment about him and DH being on coke half the time. I really cant remember what he said verbatim but I sort of nervously laughed (was shocked and he was drunk) and excused myself.

Naturally went home and curiously prodded DH the next morning in bed who waffled about trying it a couple of times and said Bob was a royal prick with a big bouth. I was uneasy that he didn't tell me but nothing divorce worthy. I ask why he didn't tell me and prodded as you do (smelled a rat, wife spidey sense) and then he told me:

He had a coke habit when he went to live abroad in his early twenties right before I met him. He said it was just a bit of fun and just when it started getting a bit out of control he met a girl who he really loved. They had a real relationship and spent a year getting high. Only god knows how he kept his job, but of course drug addiction doesn't necessarily have a face. Anyway she had previously had a heroin addiction and they started doing heavier stuff. He freaked out and ended it. She stopped picking up her mobile and he went to check on her she's dead in flat. Huge drama with her family/ police / drug debt I wont get into it but its fucking insane. He comes home tells no one traumatised. We meet about a year and a half later.

I didnt sense one thing - he spoke of his couple of years abroad quite normally but rarely looking back. I thought nothing of it why would I?

I'm still in shock, not just from the incident, but of the fact that he didn't tell me. I was so shocked that I just said he needs to give me time to digest it. We haven't spoken about it since because I've just shut down. I don't know what's wrong with me - I feel nothing. It's like he's a stranger now. We had a very happy and passionate marriage. Such a great banter affection. Even the kids sense something is off. He keeps trying to talk about it but i don't even hear a word he's saying. I just keep on thinking who are you?

AIBU to want to separate for a bit? I have had no time to digest this?! He said lets send the kids to their nans for half term and deal with this so off they go tomorrow.

fusion - your attitude totally makes sense now. We're never going to agree, i think, because our fundamental approaches are different.

The argument I would make against your points above is that they leave unanswered a huge question, namely: 'How do we define the good?' or 'Why is killing bad?' or 'Why do we need society to punish some behaviours severely?' Even if you have a behaviourist theory about how to control actions, your arguments presume a normative domain that they don't appear to justify. Why is social order a good thing? The answer is by no means obvious.

This is not an argument against consequentialism, by the way - even extreme consequentialist theories require a moral rationale to answer that question - for utilitarians, for example, it was the felicific calculus. To put it another way, I think functional contextualism is a powerful way of thinking about things like social conditioning and behaviour and how you can produce certain actions - but I am not sure it can be extended to a moral theory because it leaves that level of the 'good' so unexplored. (And, by the way, I am a relativist, so I don't believe there is one answer for all times, places and societies).

To be fair, none of the functional contextualist writers I've read (that wouldn't be many - I've been through a smattering of Skinner, Biglan, Hayes; I know a bit more about Dewey whose views I don't think fit that well in that umbrella) have suggested that it is a moral system, though - they have been far more interested in the process of influencing behaviour than the setting of socially normative goals.

A deeper problem with it, for me personally, is that a focus on upholding the social order seems to deny the event, contingency, and the open-ended nature of our relation to time - I don't want to close down the future and make it predictable, I want to open it to the possibility of radical and utopian change. I have a Foucauldian suspicion of the disciplinary. But then I suspect that politically we may be approaching this from very different perspectives too!

Mama, support went AWOL for the most part quite a while ago.

Apologies for the de-rail mummy.

I do believe people can change. I believe in redemption and second chances. But I think the one thing fusion and I would probably agree on is that this involves taking moral responsibility for the past. I hope your DH can find the bravery (and it does take real bravery) to come to terms with what he has done. I think support from you and the family may be quite important as he does so. But I would understand completely if you felt you couldn't offer that, and you preferred to walk away. I think, if he's not prepared to face and confront it, the outlook is unfortunately bleaker.

Not good obviously but has he ever harmed you?
People do change he was obviously in a bad place in a bad way with bad people and who knows the circumstances leading up to that.
You've been together ten years, you know who he genuinely is X

I've got a past, I don't talk about it, I skim over the truth if anyone directly asks something I'm uncomfortable with as I don't want to be judged or reminded of mistakes I made. If the people I knew then met me now they wouldn't recognise me because that was never who I was, I finally found the real me.

OP, I've read your posts though NTFT

I think this thread has long gone past it's helpful state and is now simply full of people pulling wings off flies because they can.

Sounds to me like you had an awful shock (no bloody wonder) but have accepted what he says is true (you are best placed to assess this remember), and that he is entitled to say he doesn't want to talk about it, (hard to blame him for that).

It's extraordinary he told you at all. I'm not sure I would have revealed a past like that. There's far more minor stuff in my own past that I've never told dh about and never will. I am who I am now. This is who I choose to be. I've no interest in pulling old stupid shit (for me not you) out of the closet to air and examine.

You should get the thread deleted OP. As well as being highly personal and potentially identifying, at this stage it is only prodding you further, trying to escalate the issues for its own amusement.

Wilting who irl is she going to be able to share this with? Tbh I'd understand if she never said a word to the people she'd usually turn to for support and objective advice. I imagine it's difficult for her keep this all to herself, but the thread will die eventually.

Still people wildly speculating is not helpful. She would be better to access some real life help at this point. V difficult to evaluate the advice of strangers on the internet beyond a certain point. You can see from ehr posts she is struggling with the spectrum she's getting and trying to balance that against her own personal knowledge and experience of her DH.

As you say Shove, it's not that easy to debate in this particular context. There's definitely no presumption of normative anything or any assumption that there needs to be a particular politics around discipline and punishment, just that this is what typically happens in our current verbal community, but to foreground that requires a lot more than is reasonable to lay out on this particular thread. And certainly most functional contextualists are pretty radically utopian I would say, though you are certainly right - there is silence around morality, but that's because it's a fundamentally a-ontological position, so there can't be a "good" in this context. I'm not entirely down with that myself.. however, I do think it lends itself to ways of thinking about the realities of life like poor OP is facing here that aren't so easy to come by if you're thinking mechanistically... but again, not the time or the place for it here maybe.

Mummymalta, can you accept it? I don't know - can you? I think people can and do accept all manner of things. Terrible things, awful things, soul-destroying things.

What's maybe more pertinent is - will accepting it allow you to live a life that matters to you, that you can stand for and with in ways that you feel are important and meaningful? Does it align with your values for yourself, your marriage, your kids to do so?

And also.. know that acceptance is a practice. It's not something you do one day and then hey presto the pain of it is resolved. Ultimately "accepting" in your current context means that you will have to live with all the feelings of disgust and uncertainty and difficulty about this information and what it means to you for the rest of your life. These things won't be "resolved" - and so answering the question of whether you can do that will be an ongoing everyday activity, and the answers may change over and over, and ultimately take you in all sorts of directions that are not easy to predict - because it will be constantly changing, constantly evolving and new information and experiences will shift your perspective on it on an ongoing basis.

So yes, no, maybe? I don't think you can say for sure. An old soft familiar and lovely rug is gone from under you and you have to find a new way to stand your ground without it.

OP stop justifying your marriage to strangers on the Internet.

Thanks everyone....sorry for keeping the thread for so long but I can't tell anyone I just can't. I told my mum bits and she said everyone has a past don't fuck up your marriage. I know I can't discuss this in real life DH has told me not to. Feel thrown away in RL and now on MN. Your right this thread will die and I'll have no one to talk to in RL. You just can't trust people to keep in confidential. Do you know how many times someone has said to me look, I shouldn't be telling you this but....
The anxiety of them talking wouldn't be worth confiding.
We will be fine - for the DCs we will be fine.
If I still have a weird feeling in a few months we will separate - thats a big cloud to have hanging over your head TBH. He's being sweet and giving hugs and kisses telling me to forget about it and that I shouldn't be burdened by his fuck ups.

I've read this thread ,horrified and fascinated ,but must comment .
Its your decision, and you must live with it but please ,please take care .

Actually, your DH cannot tell you whether or not to talk about this is RL. That is your decision and yours alone.

Could you talk to a counsellor?

Fwiw I don't know what I'd do in your situation.

For me, an important part of recovering has been complete and absolute honesty with people close to me; if they can still love me after knowing the worst I've done then at least I know I'm not living a lie.

But I'm sure it's different for everyone - also I don't have DC so that adds another dimension...I don't know how comfortable id be with disclosing things if I knew my dc would hear about them.

I do think you should consider counselling or something solid in real life.

Maybe you should head over to Relationships for more support. Maybe you haven’t been able to give your DM enough of the picture to understand how severe this is. When I read the first page or two of your thread I was also thinking “past is past, get over it”. But then as I read more of the thread I could see three things more clearly: just how very bad his past was; just how badly he is handling his past; and just how badly he is behaving towards you now.

He is frantically trying to stop you from questioning him further, he has tried everything from “kindly but firmly” telling you to mind your own business to refusing to talk about it at all to loading you with kisses and attention so long as you don’t go there. Do you not think that telling you he will “support you to come to terms with this” while shutting down your questions is anything short of bare-faced cheek? He has not come to terms with his past at all, he has swept it under the carpet and he plans to keep on doing it. If he had come to terms he would have told you before marriage that there was something in his past, that there were bad things he had done, and let you judge whether he had told you enough to let you commit to him. He has not tried to protect you, it’s all been about protecting himself and still getting what he wants.

In the process of self-protection he is dismissive of your feelings and reactions. This revelation changes everything for you, right down to how you will feel when you next see him sip champagne. But he wants you to keep quiet and act as if everything is the same as ever. He has made it clear that talking about this is “torture” to him - at the same time he has told you that learning his past has merely “upset” you. So your horror at learning what the man you married was once capable of doing, and the shock to the foundations of your marriage from the secretive dishonesty he has used all along and is still capable of – in his eyes you are just upset. He has a lot of respect for his own feelings but none for yours.

Some people go through remorse and contrition and then they really do move on. Those people can tell a prospective partner as much as they need to know about their past to make a judgment. Other people want to “move on” without ever going through the remorse or contrition. He may feel shame but your DH is not showing any signs of remorse, not for what he did (look at all the ways he shifts responsibility onto something or someone else) and not even for you finding out 8 years too late and from someone else. But that is Bob’s fault for being a big prick with a loud mouth. Not DH’s fault for choosing to say nothing before you married.

More worrying still, he also told you there was a point in the past where someone he cared about tortured him and he hit her. Sure there are no drugs involved now, but I can’t help wondering. Do you wonder yourself? Might you become afraid to talk to him about his past or how you feel about it because of how he might react?

The lovely (and tough!) women on Relationships will help you look clearly at who your DH is now, as well as who he was and who he claimed to be. Anyway, whatever you decide to do, do look after yourself. You've done nothing wrong.

I'm not going to lie, my brother was in a relationship where they were both physically abusive, does his wife know now? I doubt it. Were they fucked up due to her being in care as a kid and their mutual weed use and unemployment?! Yes

Your DH problems... Well they sort of go a bit further and he's done more. Trust me if he was convicted you won't be allowed into USA anytime soon. I'd personally want to know 100% about what happened, truth, speak to Bob etc and even then I wouldn't be happy 100% but I guess I could live with it.

What littlemissmarker says is bang on the money.

Agree with littlemissmarker

Fwiw the addicts I know, the ones that have had successful recoveries have completely owned their addiction and behaviour, atoned where possible and definitely are remorseful. The ones who have relapsed, one after 15 years, haven't done this.

Please take care, please consider counselling (there are counsellors that specialise in this area), and please don't think that because you are saying you've chosen not to separate right now means you can't in the future.

Agree with littlemissmarker.

When it's written like this, it's possible to see how controlling his behaviour actually is. And if he's that controlling, he may also be controlling his addiction as opposed to owning it - a mind over matter as opposed to coming to terms with events. I can see the risk of slipping back into old ways would be there given the right set of circumstances. Even after so long as Baconyum has illustrated.

LittleMissMarker, I agree 100%. And also with Baconyum.

OP. It is understandable that you feel you owe it to your "dream man" to be loyal, not to rock the boat, etc, hence you wanting desperately to take him at his word.

Bar the weird feelings that you are getting. Are you just going to brush them under the carpet because he has told you you are not entitled to know more than he has told you? Why aren't you making enquiries about what really happened? There are professionals who can track down anything and anyone.

What he did were not just high jinks, there was a loss of life, rape allegations, and I for sure would want to know what part he played if I am to wake up next to him for the rest of my life. I find it a bit sad that you are so prepared to not act on your feelings and try to find out more TBH. I know this is not how you see yourself, but to an onlooker it would seem as though he is controlling what you should think, feel and say about it all.

I can't tell anyone I just can't.

You might need to, which is why it might be worth finding a counsellor. It's a he'll of a burden to carry alone, if not.

It is difficult to find someone - most of the people I would naturally have talked to also knew my mother, and it wasn't my place to tell her story and possibly wreck their relationship with her, and maybe with me, especially as, like you, I didn't know exactly went on, nor how much of what I had been told was true.

I did tell my sister - I couldn't know that stuff about Mum and not tell her. She didn't appreciate me telling her; unlike me, who had had no inkling at all, she was less naive and had thought there must be something and had actively decided not to find out, and she was very angry I made her know.

Counselling did help - no relationship with anyone involved, no judgement, just the chance to talk it through and focus on the things that bothered me - because the past per se wasn't an issue, it was the trust, what else might have been hidden from me. For you, it may be different, but just keeping it to yourself inside - well, that really wasn't good for my mental health, as it turned out.

Hope you work out what you need to do for you.

Mummy I won't comment on whether you should stay. You've had a thread full of opinions on that.

I do think you should consider how much he is restraining himself, though, and whether you can trust him to continue to restrain himself so much.

For example, not even indulging in a glass of champagne on your wedding day. He had a sip. Does he think if he had a glass, he wouldn't be able to stop? Is he concerned that he would drink to excess, or seek out drugs again? Of course, some people just don't drink, but it's fairly unusual to go from someone who drinks and parties hard to someone who won't touch it. It usually means there are alcohol abuse issues. What is he scared of?

And you say he's not aggressive, especially sexually, and he is very kind to you. Which again is wonderful, if that's natural. But again, it seems like an unnatural boundary that he's created, and I'd be worried what he thinks would happen if it broke. If he loses his calm composure, what happens? Would he hit you?

Obviously nobody wants him to be aggressive or drunk, but it does seem he's built some barriers and worked out how to operate inside them, and thats worked for 10 years. Knowing what you do now, though, I would want to know why the barriers were built, and what happens if he finds himself close to them or over them.

He still appears to be largely in control of your relationship - refusing to talk about it anymore, treating you like you should get over this. He might be doing it in a lovely, Gentleman-ly way, but he's still making sure he retains control. He's minimising your feelings, but nicely. I would very much need to feel like equals to continue in this now, as he seems to have some history in using people to his advantage, and for a while at least I'd struggle to completely believe that he was acting in everyone's best interests. He needs to understand that he can control and moderate his own feelings, but not yours, and he shouldn't expect to have any element of control over your feelings or reactions. Or even your actions.

This all sounds so rushed, like he is steamrolling a sweep under the carpet situation and you're convincing yourself you have to agree for the kids' sake.

The fact is he has done some life changing things not long before he met you. You found out by accident, you had to press him to tell you the story. He told you most of it (according to him and you only have his word for it- considering he hid the truth from him all this time there is no garantee he is telling you the truth now).

If he really loved you he would answer ALL your questions. However grim and painful for him he owes it to you to be 100 % honest and put your mind at ease.
He's now telling you he won't answer your questions. You're not allowed to discuss the situation.

It all sounds so stifling for you. Even more than his actions (and even 10 years and a ’different person' later I don't know if I could get over what he did) it's the way he is managing you now that is so off.
It feels like he wants loving compliant wifey back and that he expects you to shut up (literally) and go back to normal.

Wow.