DH has hidden some heavy stuff...AIBU to want to separate?

[mummymalta]

3 weeks ago DH revealed some very personal things which I feel I should have known before we got married. To be honest, we are all entitled to secrets and personal experiences I suppose, but where do you draw the line?

DH and I have been together for 10 years and married for 7. He's my best friend, I feel like I knew and loved him so much. Affirming these things is very strange to me. We were solid.

A "friend" of DH from the country he used to live in came to a party of a mutual friend of ours. Lets call him Bob. I don't know Bob, DH has only mentioned him briefly and my friend knows him but not well. He came with my friends brother who he is sort of close to. DH didn't want to come to the party (long day) and didn't know Bob would be there. I kissed the kids and ran out the house desperate for freedom on a friday night went to the party.

Get to the party and was enjoying child free time when my friends brother came over to say hi with Bob. "Bob you haven't met DH's wife have you? it's been about 12 years right? "
Bob: "Holy shit - you know I barely remember those days"
He then made a slick comment about him and DH being on coke half the time. I really cant remember what he said verbatim but I sort of nervously laughed (was shocked and he was drunk) and excused myself.

Naturally went home and curiously prodded DH the next morning in bed who waffled about trying it a couple of times and said Bob was a royal prick with a big bouth. I was uneasy that he didn't tell me but nothing divorce worthy. I ask why he didn't tell me and prodded as you do (smelled a rat, wife spidey sense) and then he told me:

He had a coke habit when he went to live abroad in his early twenties right before I met him. He said it was just a bit of fun and just when it started getting a bit out of control he met a girl who he really loved. They had a real relationship and spent a year getting high. Only god knows how he kept his job, but of course drug addiction doesn't necessarily have a face. Anyway she had previously had a heroin addiction and they started doing heavier stuff. He freaked out and ended it. She stopped picking up her mobile and he went to check on her she's dead in flat. Huge drama with her family/ police / drug debt I wont get into it but its fucking insane. He comes home tells no one traumatised. We meet about a year and a half later.

I didnt sense one thing - he spoke of his couple of years abroad quite normally but rarely looking back. I thought nothing of it why would I?

I'm still in shock, not just from the incident, but of the fact that he didn't tell me. I was so shocked that I just said he needs to give me time to digest it. We haven't spoken about it since because I've just shut down. I don't know what's wrong with me - I feel nothing. It's like he's a stranger now. We had a very happy and passionate marriage. Such a great banter affection. Even the kids sense something is off. He keeps trying to talk about it but i don't even hear a word he's saying. I just keep on thinking who are you?

AIBU to want to separate for a bit? I have had no time to digest this?! He said lets send the kids to their nans for half term and deal with this so off they go tomorrow.

A troll hunting is not allowed

B MNHQ already responded to the troll accusations

C some of the questions WERE answered

D op does not owe anybody answers anyway!

Stepping back from the thread, having had the error of my ways pointed out. Apologies. OP.

Quite frankly moma and winds you can "want" whatever questions you like answered. The op doesn't have to answer them - that's not how this works. She's not in a court of law, she's on her own thread asking for support and should be allowed to disclose as much, or little, as she chooses and to change some details in order to preserve her anonymity. That's why MN allows multiple name changes and why all sensible posters change some of the details of a real life problem they need support dealing with.

OP please ignore the posters who are the actual trolls - I.e. just posting to get a reaction and not contributing to the main issues being discussed.

I'll answer some of the questions:

1. What do his family know

OP has only just been able to talk to random strangers on the internet. This is a big one to talk about with his family, though I believe it should be done at some point.

1. How did he escape criminal charges for the crimes he has admitted

OP's dh is not happy to talk about it anymore, but this is a good question for her to ask him.

1. How much does Bob know?

Tracking down Bob is not going to be easy to do without opening a can of worms in RL, again something the OP is not ready at all to do.

1. Why would he admit this when all you had an inkling of was recreational drug use a decade ago?

Maybe he's actually a good guy who has been 'wanting' to tell but finding it hard. A good opening was what was needed. Maybe not, we don't know him.

1. Is he ever allowed to return to the States?

A question for the dh

1. Have you had the sense to get tested

Again, the OP is still processing this, but that should come soon-ish

1. Have you, in all seriousness, told someone in RL? This is for your own safety.

It has been difficult for the OP to talk about this on the internet let alone in RL. Doing this has been a first step. However, it would be good OP to tell a friend a bit, not all of this, but the bare minimum. Or your parents.

OP, hope you will be able to keep processing it. I am sorry some people have been off putting. It is much better what you are doing than doing nothing and burying it. I wish you all the best in the world. I don't think you will deny, though you may go through points of feeling that it would be best, but your reaction so far makes me think you are going to deal with this, however long it takes.

Momamum you don't think suggesting the OP jumps out a window and describing an incredibly difficult time in the OP's life as having good comedy value is bullying?

How would you feel if someone followed you around in real life when you were going through a traumatic time and said that kind of thing to you even though you made it clear you wanted them to stop?

Why is it any different online?

owl the post about the window was, I think, posted just after midnight or so; I was referencing a post made some 7hrs later re: questions.

I want to leave to those of you who have shared their own experiences and wish you all well

And with that, I'm bowing out.

fusion - you're confusing volition and responsibility.

No, I'm not "confusing" anything, but thanks for the patronising comment. I simply don't agree with your assertion that "volition" is a consideration in the way you have presented it.

As it so happens I'm not particularly keen on any readings of human behaviour that relate to imaginary "cognitive processes" as a volitional account would. Ultimately, we are what we do, not what what we think or what motivates us. You rape someone when drunk, you've raped someone while drunk. You murder someone when on drugs, you've murdered someone while on drugs. The outcome is exactly the same and there can be no special consideration of the "volition" involved. You want to separate them, presumably because it suits what you believe about life. There's quite a lot of science to suggest there is no dividing line between categories of thought and action that would support this. You are telling yourself a great big fat lie.

And of course, the law agrees with me in nearly all cases. Criminal behaviour while under the influence, particularly involving grievous harm to others, is not viewed as a case of diminished responsibility which it would be if the theory of volitional impairment was considered sound.

Actually, fusion, you're the one making the assumptions! My attitude towards responsibility is the polar opposite of what you think: I believe that we have responsibility for the consequences of our actions independently of any arguments about either volition, intention or responsibility. I would argue, for example, that you and I are completely responsible for the unintended consequences of your modern lifestyle on ecosystems and those in the developing world. We may not mean to enact violence, but we do so and we are responsible for that. Every time you fill up your car, buy stuff you don't need, take a flight - you are responsible. We all bear a heavy burden of responsibility.

I do think, however, that there is such a thing as a cognitive processes (I cannot begin to think how you can believe that these are imaginary - that we have no cognition at all. Do you think we are robots?) though I think these are largely shaped not by individual agency but by learned social patterns.

I would, however, wish to retain a distinction between someone who intends to do something wrong and someone who doesn't - a sado-masochistic murder for pleasure is different morally, I think, to someone whose car malfunctions and who kills a pedestrian as a result. The result is the same: a death, and both people remain responsible, but their burden is quite different.

*our not your. Damn phone!

No, I don't think we're robots. I'm a functional contextualist. Which means more or less that I think all our actions are a product of the interaction between our evolution and individual learning histories and of individual behavioural and social repertoires which are endlessly dynamic and evolving. From a social perspective this means that you have to look pragmatically at all behaviour - all behaviour has a function, and is a product of a context, but the outcome is the only thing that really determines the meaning of an action. It's a complicated philosophy and beyond the scope of this thread - but it is avowedly non-mechanistic (you can't separate out components that lead to the act) so really talking of something like "volition" is a dead duck. An act is an act in context and its outcome is its outcome.

So the question - what brought you to kill someone? Not that important. In a civil society, you've killed that person and the context has changed because of that act - it would not be pragmatic or sensible to find a story that excuses it if we want to continue to function co-operatively in the world. Your inhibitory function is low? So what? You were traumatised and that led you to kill? So what? You lacked volitional control? So what?

Functional contextualism recognises all explanations to be incomplete and to consider what predicts and controls future behaviour to be more important. If people start believing they lacked volitional control when under the influence, will they be more or less likely to engage in actions that are not of benefit to themselves or the world? That is the pragmatic truth criterion. So "morality" isn't really the point. The point is that most of us generally believe it's better that people don't lose all control and kill other people and so we need to maintain boundaries that reinforce this and not seek to excuse or condone it - we accept that as evolved monkeys, people have primal urges that are controlled by social and verbal processes relating to group inclusion or exclusion, but by virtue of having evolved from animals and having features in common with animals, may kill people in certain circumstances e.g. when under the influence of certain drugs. However, we do not in any way make this a "special case" for understanding or excusing or condoning those actions in ways that reinforce it (increase the likelihood of recurrence).

In the same way, you know, OP's husband broke so many conventions of what is fair and proper in his life and in his communication of it to her, that the outcome is she is now suffering and unsure and feeling unsafe. That is the outcome of his act. Why he did it - any of it - is irrelevant. What he does now bears careful consideration - continue to avoid it for his own comfort? What's the outcome of that? Increased safety and connection to his wife or less? What's the likely outcome of her putting up with it because "it's all in the past" or he lacked volitional control or we don't know the full story or or or? Will it bring her towards a life that has sense and meaning and vitality for her, or away?

That's the real nub of this. Morality is rigid. What matters is what is unfolding. And what's unfolding now is he doesn't want to talk about it and OP is walking on eggshells and all over the place. What seems to be happening now is RIGHT NOW he is prioritising his comfort and happiness over love and connection to his wife in how he is approaching this. That's my interpretation but of course in the end of the day only the OP and he are principal witnesses to any of it. Which is why a good therapist and time might be helpful.

"I would, however, wish to retain a distinction between someone who intends to do something wrong and someone who doesn't - a sado-masochistic murder for pleasure is different morally, I think, to someone whose car malfunctions and who kills a pedestrian as a result. The result is the same: a death, and both people remain responsible, but their burden is quite different."

And in real terms it's probably not. The sadomasochistic killer got what s/he wanted from the act and nothing society can do will reduce that reinforcement - so we need to punish that very severely as a behaviour in society. In the case of vehicular manslaughter, the individual will likely suffer greatly as a result of their actions without any further intervention society so it makes sense for the society to temper the additional punishment meted out. It's really about prediction and control of outcome, based on sound learning principles.

And what's happening with OP here?

What will happen here if they "continue on regardless"? Because 'they can't. The context has changed. Now all`that's left for OP is to work out how to live with that and move forward in a way that doesn't create more harm in her life - or her childrens' lives.

One day they may find this out too... and how will they feel? What will they think of what their father did and how their mother handled finding out about it?

I still can't believe the OP's husband has basically told her there is more to the story but he doesn't want to tell her.
He's only confessed because he was busted at a party and now won't answer any questions?

If it were me I would go crazy wondering. OP I hope you are OK.

fusionconfusion Am I fool for believing that he doesn't want to talk because it's over and he doesn't recognise that person? Many ex drug users have come on here and have said they haven't even told partners about their very murky past for that very reason. In terms of him being a little cold a couple of people have actually said in the thread that they sound detached when speaking about their past because it's like talking about a different life and person. They are all guilt-tripped / shamed / cried out. It's a harsh reality that life goes on after you fuck up but it does. Or have I lost my mind.
Am I really on a forum considering my DH is a fucking closeted rapist and psychopath? This is ridiculous. But citizens post made me sick because just like my DH hers seemed perfectly normal.
But TEN YEARS!!!!!
Never has been forceful in bed - sorry for too much information but he isn't even aggressive in the bedroom.
Rarely even raises his voice or swears - he does get angry obviously but mostly shuts down and goes quiet as opposed to loud behaviour.
I believe that he didn't rape her / kill her (hate typing that TBH this is nuts) and the beating is disgusting but we can get through that. Not past it because its disgusting but through it at least. I can accept that he was a drug addict who beat up his GF in a drugged up state on crack. I can. I can accept he has changed. Can't I?

anonacfr I know the worst of it and he doesn't want to get into little grimey details / go back down crack hazed memory lane.
No one knows not even PILs
After he got heavy he started hanging with a different crowd.
I do wanna know if the girl came into the picture when him and Bob were still friendly and if Bob met her but wtf am I meant to do call my friend and randomly ask for Bob's number and drag a bunch of other people into this.

PrivatePike :( Am i an idiot?

You are being unreasonable! Having a past doesn't change who he is. If he was an addict right now and hiding it from you ok there are issues but why cause problems when there aren't any?
He changed his life and didn't feel it was important to disclose to you, maybe he was scared this was how you would react? You love the man he is not the man he was, don't punish him for something that he did before he met you

I just came on to give you some support OP, I think you have had a hard time from some posters. I don't know how I would feel, but if I had loved a man for 10 years that would not be easily lost by revelations about his past, although it may be swayed.

I do actually believe in redemption, particularly as your DH was still fairly young, people can change a lot as they grow and mature. I have had to move on from some pretty unforgivable stuff from my family, and they didn't have the excuse of drugs. Sometimes, you have to compartmentalise to survive. If you love someone, then you love them failings and all.

Only you really know your feelings for your DH and what sort of man his is now, so in the end you have to trust to your own judgement. All of us responding to your posts are just speculating, with no knowledge of the man or your marriage. Good luck.

PrivatePike No. But who am I to think I'm one of the lucky ones? Did you read citizens post?

PrivatePike sad Am i an idiot|

You keep on coming back to the thread when there is absolutely no reason to because all that had to be said was said pages ago.

Greenyogagirl What about beating her? Not forgivable but I can live with it......

notonyurjellybellynelly Support.