To not stop saying that menstruation is a women's issue?

[HermioneWeasley]

Despite the fact that Twitter loons insist that it is triggering for trans women and erasing trans men?

On behalf of the millions and millions of women and girls suffering due to periods, and lack of access to sanpro and toilets (a FAR bigger human rights issue than where people with gender dysphoria pee) , I will keep saying this is a women's issue.

That's encouraging Rhonda. Perhaps the tide is turning.

venusinscorpio
I'm sure you realise it was Maria Miller being referred to, Fascicle. But knock yourself out.

I did wonder if there was some confusion, but I couldn't be sure. Nicky Morgan is the Minister for Women and Equalities; Maria Miller heads up a specialist committee. Regardless, it's always useful to know what was actually said.

Gad to hear it Rhonda, I expect to have similar discussions with my daughter when she's older.

Being only 5ft 2, I find it incredibly triggering to walk into the 'Tall' section in Next and Topshop, as it reminds me what a dumpy shortarse i am. I will never get to wear those lovely long trousers

Is that true about the Green Party and the 'male' and 'non-male' tick boxes???

Hmmm, which specialist committee does MM head up, Fascicle?

The green party wanted to be inclusive and not exclude or insult anyone, and ended up offending and excluding half the human race.

Highsteaks, you're probably tall on the inside, can you not just identify as a tall person?

Who is expected to tick the "non-male" box if they've back pedalled and claim it doesn't apply to woman (either born or trans)?? Is there a whole new species we're currently unaware of?

venusinscorpio
Hmmm, which specialist committee does MM head up, Fascicle?

I meant special rather than specialist committee, venus. Are you sure you don't know the answer?

Oh fuck yes, Highsteaks. I'm 4'11 & not being able to reach stuff in shops triggers me like mad.

I asked the actor Rebecca Root once why she was happy to be 'out' as trans, rather than recognised as a woman. She said it's because she is trans, wants to be accepted for that and for trans to be considered perfectly normal.

That I agree with and understand, what I object to is the increasing desire by a small but hellishly vocal minority who seem intent on reclassifying women for their own ends. We're the majority sex ffs, how fucking dare they?

I agree, I have no problem with trans women, but I don't consider them women.

venus - I agree completely.

I'm gender critical and I know gender to be socially constructed, but I also know that gender identity is something that other people experience strongly and which is meaningful to them. Being trans is a gender identity and as valid as being a feminine woman, a masculine woman or a woman who does not identify as either or anything much. Insisting that trans women are just the same as female people is simply stupid and pointless. Trans people should accept and embrace their trans identity and I'm sure they would feel happier and less like fish out of water, whereas insisting that everyone pretends they are no different to a man with male genitals or vice versa cannot make anyone happy I'm sure.

I completely agree, ladystark.

But look at how the current debate has got you using the term "female people" instead of "women". It's happening without us even knowing.

Arse, just typed a long post then lost it.

In short, the suicide issue is a complete red herring. Someone could well feel suicidal as a result of the societal emphasis on and reinforcement of gender roles. The answer is not to say, well lets just make it so people can choose a different gender role, and add some more in case that is still too restrictive* (whilst ignoring the fundamental, founding role that biological sex plays in all this). The answer is to say gender roles are bollocks.

*Which ultimateley leads to there being as many "genders" as people on the planet, thus rendering the concept meaningless. It's self-defeating. With a load of crap along the way.

That's the thing isn't it, trans people don't seem to want to embrace being trans and be accepted for being so. They want to be accepted as being something they are not. This sets them apart from every minority group I can think of.

They want to be accepted as being something they are not. This sets them apart from every minority group I can think of.

I think I've just had an epiphany [gtin]

As ever Hermione you are so on point, the more I read your posts the more I love you

I got into a Facebook argument on a page called Women's Rights News lately who usually post good stuff, they'd shared an article about how menstruation is a man's issue too: I'm fucking furious. Would it be so hard for trans men to accept that they retain some female bodily functions during transition? Why does it always come back to erasing women AGAIN.

Also, on the subject of the otherwise thoughtful, rational people getting angrily defensive and critical at anything not toeing the trans line... I think we don't normally see that side of people we usually agree with. And they are used to arguing the case over various forms of discrimination. If they're even vaguely on board with the trans narrative, the "TEFF" view is to them like saying "Oh, well of course blacks are less intelligent" or something!

They want to be accepted as being something they are not. This sets them apart from every minority group I can think of.

YY

Can you imagine if other stereotypes and discrimination were dealt with in the same way?
For example, we'd insist black and white people were very different, based on stereotypes, but that you could "transisiton" between races.

The world seems to be going crazy. Of course it's a women's issue. Trans people can be called whatever they like but they are not biologically the other sex. And Bruce Jenner as woman of the year just highlighted this stupidity to me.

Pinky was that the "de-gendering menstruation" one? That was bonkers.

The whole "men menstruate and get pregnant and give birth" argument is incredibly dangerous to women's rights. We are afforded protected status around these issues because only women can do them - when individuals who are legally men start doing them too, that argument falls away.

Want maternity leave? Want the right not to be sacked for being pregnant? Then you need to fight against words being redefined to the point of being meaningless.

It's just nonsense.

If women are not the subset who give birth and lactate are we just the subset who wear high heels and like kittens?

kittens and high heels - wevs.

But that 'naturally' means that we 'naturally' are caring and nurturing and less logical and too emotional and all the other shit that leaves women at the bottom of the pile in any culture you came to name.

We can't fight this version of nature.