To think school trip shouldn't be to a creationist zoo?

[SouperSal]

DH and I have issues about animal welfare and creationism.

Class at DD's (non-faith state school) had a trip to a creationist zoo this week and now DDs teacher wants to go. We're not best pleased.

WIBU.

im with most of you although id just laugh at the creationist bollocks-more concerned about animal welfare-wouldnt give them a penny

I have never heard of a creationist zoo! It seems to me it is inappropriate because a) it's not a faith school and b) the trip is about animals, i.e. biology and natural sciences so religion should not come into it. Some people have asked if you'd stop your daughter visiting a place of worship with the school - I think that is irrelevant, because such a trip would be about what some people believe, not presenting a science subject in a way that is, in many people's opinion, inaccurate.

I think it would be worth raising your concerns with the school. They want a trip looking at animals and possibly haven't thought this through. Maybe explain to them your concerns, suggest alternatives and ask for more info about the content of the trip and how Christianity would help. I think you don't want to discourage the school from doing trips, but also it is important to raise awareness about these concerns.

@Egosumquisum I completely agree with you.

What especially grinds my gears is the people who say "she's 5, it doesn't matter" about creationist zoos or Empire Day.

It's so contrary to the idea of educating children. You don't wait for them to grow up and then teach them 'the facts' later, you age-appropriately educate as they grow up.

I would be objecting to the visit because of this-

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221493/Zoo-skinned-dead-tiger-Tira-stored-head-freezer.html

Sorry it's a Daily Fail link. We are in Somerset, and used to regularly visit the zoo before we heard about this.

It's covered by the video posted earlier in the thread too.

I can't formally object because the trip hasn't been arranged yet. But I've scribbled a note expressing concerns about the dubious links with circuses, reports of poor animal welfare and squashing of science and saying I don't think it's an appropriate place for the school to support by visiting. Have suggested workable alternatives.

Good on you op
The more people object to this sort of thing, the less acceptable it becomes.
Circus animals were v popular once, and when people spoke up they were dismissed.
Nowadays it's not acceptable to have lions and tigers in circuses, I look forward to the day Zippos stops with its fucking cats/budgies/horses, as animals for entertainment like that just feels so wrong.

I hope they listen to you.

Me too. I've tried to be quite gentle in my note but clear about the (many) issues I have with this idea.

I'm not sure why the science theme makes it controversial. If we have learned anything from science it's that incontrovertible facts become something else when the next theory expands the knowledge.
Understanding how other people see things and exploring why they might be wrong is surely educational.
Animal welfare is a tricker issue. I'd much rather children had proper field trips out in the wild but I can't see that happening. And to be honest in the uk they'd see a field of deer and some rabbits if they were lucky.

I think if another child's parent was to prevent my child doing something I'd have something to say about that. And if you disagree with the next trip and the next, what happens?

I live in Bristol and put off taking my DD to Noah's Ark zoo because of the creationist thing. However, we ended up going last year as my parents had arranged a family trip there so we tagged along too.

I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised. I had this idea that there would be lots of Christian literature etc everywhere but there was absolutely none on show that I was aware of. If you didn't know it was a 'creationist' zoo you would be none the wiser. I believe they have a delegated house which has all the religious stuff in it, so if you don't want to see it (we didn't) you can obviously give it a miss.

I thought it was a nice day out, nice play area and the animals had a lot more space to roam around in, compared to Bristol Zoo.

Good for you OP. This trip is wrong on so many levels. I am more than happy for my DS to go to the local church, Mosque, Hindu temple as part of the study of comparative religion - but passing off religious propaganda as scientific fact is just wrong. And the maltreatment of animals documented up thread is utterly unacceptable. And well done for handling it by suggesting suitable alternatives.

Could you suggest they go a little further north & head to The Wild Place instead? It's not got an extensive range of animals yet but they do fab educational talks for school trips & has a less commercial feel to it. I'm not sure why I'm suggesting this, I practically live there & hate all the school trips!

But the evidence wouldn't take us backwards to an evolution vs creation position. It would be some scientific variation of evolution not a mythological one.

"I think if another child's parent was to prevent my child doing something I'd have something to say about that. And if you disagree with the next trip and the next, what happens?"

That's not how it would work. The school would decide, acting on the information brought to their attention by the parent. They may or may not agree with the parent concerned.

k if another child's parent was to prevent my child doing something I'd have something to say about that. And if you disagree with the next trip and the next, what happens?

Keep your wig on. I've demanded nothing, I'm not stopping them from choosing it for the trip and none of the other parents know anything about it!

If they decide to go, my DD won't be going without me.

I visited this place once without knowing anything about it.

The animal welfare was really shocking, tigers pacing in small pens etc. Someone told me later that they buy/rent their 'attractions' from circuses depending on which animals are most popular. Not even a pretence at an education or conservation element.

Also went to one of the animal talks - again, no care for animal welfare, letting hordes of kids touch the animals - and explicitly preaching about creationism.

Totally unsuitable for a school trip. If they are going all the way to Bristol why not visit the zoo?

"In the past, we have run a range of different workshops to suit individual and group requirements including art lessons and discussions on Intelligent Design."

Much of the criticism I've seen relates to the offering Ben c rather different than the website description. Eg no discussion of evolution v creationism, just creationism being used to discredit evolution.

I think if another child's parent was to prevent my child doing something I'd have something to say about that.

But this trip hasn't even been planned yet, so how would your child be prevented from going on it if the school just decides to go somewhere else?

It does make me chuckle that as a Christian I've got to put up with all sort of secular rubbish thrown at my kids and when questioned I'm told I'm narrow-minded. Yet ppl get sooo Hey up in case they catch 'christianitus'! Surely if I'm giving my kids the chance to make their own decisions you should allow yours too?

In a separate note my staunch aethist friends thought noah ark was better than one near by and didn't find it preachy.

I didn't realise it was a creationist zoo. Won't be taking my daughter there, ever.

Yanbu.

Creationism is fucking bollocks, pure and simple.

It does make me chuckle that as a Christian I've got to put up with all sort of secular rubbish thrown at my kids and when questioned I'm told I'm narrow-minded"

What sort of secular rubbish did you mean?

And, as I said, Christians should be th first to object to this place.