To think school trip shouldn't be to a creationist zoo?

[SouperSal]

DH and I have issues about animal welfare and creationism.

Class at DD's (non-faith state school) had a trip to a creationist zoo this week and now DDs teacher wants to go. We're not best pleased.

WIBU.

As I said- Christians should be the first to object.

The problem with creationism is that undermines science. In fact, ALL science.
Which is why a secular school should give any creationist agenda a very wide berth.

Wendy was moved to Longleat for that very reason (obviously no poachers there though!). She had to move back to Bristol though as the elephants at Longleat bullied her.

I visited just after she'd passed away, and actually cried a bit. It was her tyre swinging in the breeze that got me

She missed her keeper apparently, too

curren, if you can't see the difference between a child learning about beliefs and having beliefs pushed at them in what is clearly a propagandising manner, frankly you worry me.

Given that the vast majority of scientists see creationism as batshit insane, and school is supposed to teach children mainstream science, I can only think that this trip is entirely inappropriate and extremely likely to confuse children by presenting them with a series of pieces of information that offer a very, very different account to that which they are officially supposed to be receiving. I would complain to school in pedagogic terms, not ideological ones.

Kids have been there on school trip and also with Playschool, we have also been as a family a few times, u less you go to the barn with all that stuff in or read every single sign you would have no idea what their beliefs in.
The kids go round and see the animals (rhinos, elephants etc that aren't in Bristol zoo) then go crazy in the various play areas.

This is not a question of "some people believe". Creationist narratives are unscientific, demonstrably incorrect bullshit.

No one should want their child being lied to at school. This is in the same league as a trip to a Holocaust denial museum (if such a thing existed). Would some of you be OK with that?

The kids go round and see the animals (rhinos, elephants etc that aren't in Bristol zoo) then go crazy in the various play areas

There are very good reasons that zoos are getting rid of elephants. (And why I'd much rather see them in Africa, on safari, than in cages and enclosures.)

unless you go to the barn with all that stuff in or read every single sign you would have no idea what their beliefs in.

Bollocks. Quick google search shows otherwise.

It's not quite in that league, Apricot!

It's crap though, and I wouldn't be keen. I think ds went with his dad, and returned unscathed, but that's a little different from an educational trip organised by school.

You shouldn't be foisting your beliefs onto your DD

Mythical, maybe you could try a very polite query as to whether the school is aware that they push creationism, and knows about their animal welfare record?

ThereIsIron, do you think it's OK that the owners of this "zoo" are foisting their beliefs on hundreds of children?

It is exactly in that league. If anything, it's worse because it's claiming divine authority.

Do you know anything about creationist ideology? Their complete denial of facts?

No, YANBU. However I am not a beleiver, and DH is the kind of atheist whose head spins around when he enters a church, and neither of us struggled too much with Noah's Ark Farm. We were invited there for a nephews birthday. There are a few information signs that mention the word 'design' and a small exhibition about the 'evidence' for the Great Flood but I was pleasantly relieved. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. And it IS a good zoo.

Apart from having inappropriate animals and poor welfare?

Evolutionary theory is the greatest scientific insight we have ever acheived.

That some people are blase about young children being taken to an organisation that exists entirely to deny this and "teach" an alternative is shocking.

"You shouldn't be foisting your beliefs onto your DD"

What, all those pesky "beliefs" in evolution and natural selection and the scientific method............

Of course I do! I just can't see a creationist zoo, as much as I disapprove, being quite as harmful and downright offensive as a holocaust denial museum would be.

Dont forget the beliefs of basic animal welfare, bert...

YANBU

And as you say the teacher asked you about it and you have a good relationship with her YWNBU to say why you don't like the idea of this place for a school trip.

I wouldn't let DS go there. I'm a little uncomfortable with zoos in general but I would never knowingly support or condone the existence of somewhere with such a poor animal welfare record.

And I don't care how subtle or obvious they are with the creationist message, I won't ignore or overlook the insidious creep of outlandish beliefs such as this into the mainstream. If I don't like the ethos or practices of an establishment that markets itself to schools I will object to it.

I wouldn't allow my DC to go because of the animal welfare issues for a start, but I would also object to them going to a Mosque or any other places of worship unless I was there.

Evolution is not a belief. We don't teach gravity or magnetism by allowing children to make up their minds whether it exists, so we shouldn't teach this through it.

The fact that so many people seem to think it is a belief system even if they do believe in it is probably a good sign that we shouldn't be giving creationism any headspace at all in the curriculum.

You shouldn't be foisting your beliefs onto your DD

Evolution is a scientific fact not a belief.