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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think school trip shouldn't be to a creationist zoo?

281 replies

SouperSal · 27/05/2016 08:21

DH and I have issues about animal welfare and creationism.

Class at DD's (non-faith state school) had a trip to a creationist zoo this week and now DDs teacher wants to go. We're not best pleased.

WIBU.

OP posts:
defunctedusername · 27/05/2016 09:33

It is possible to avoid the religious crap if you just play on the outside equipment but its a school trip so inside they are specifically educated in how evolution is a lie, how all the animals fit into a scale replica of Noahs ark and how God wrote the DNA code ... all whilst feeding the fluffy little lambs.

Oh, you can even see the snake that persuaded eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

DuckAndPancakes · 27/05/2016 09:34

YANBU. Bloody ludicrous.

DD went to a church school for reception as it was the only one that had a place. She was told that evolution was a lie and the only planet was earth as the bible didn't talk about any others. I pulled her out and home schooled her for the rest of the year.

She's now in a regular old school and if I found out they were doing a school trip to somewhere like this, I'd be seriously pissed off. This is NOT a religious visit, it's a school trip for animals. There is no need to go somewhere that is pushing beliefs down the throats of children. Nope nope nope.

luckiestgirl · 27/05/2016 09:36

"Religious education should be part of the curriculum, but not liberally sprinkled all over other topics!"

I actually disagree with this bit. When I was a teacher, it was seen as a good thing to do some inter-subject pollination, so the subjects aren't divided so rigidly.

As long as the creationist views aren't taught as fact, and are shown as 'some people believe this' (as they would be if you visited a church or Mosque) then I think it's just another good opportunity to teach the students more about the world.

BertrandRussell · 27/05/2016 09:39

I would have thought the people who would object most strongly to this visit would be Christians!.

LagunaBubbles · 27/05/2016 09:39

When It comes to the beliefs side, I don't get why you would be happy for them to go a mosque or other religious building but not here?

You really cant see it Curren??

Original poster
SouperSal · 27/05/2016 09:40

As long as the creationist views aren't taught as fact, and are shown as 'some people believe this' (as they would be if you visited a church or Mosque) then I think it's just another good opportunity to teach the students more about the world.

Have you read the thread? This place seeks to discredit science and push creationism.

OP posts:
Original poster
SouperSal · 27/05/2016 09:41

I would have thought the people who would object most strongly to this visit would be Christians!.

The other parents won't object. They couldn't care less IME.

OP posts:
Winterbiscuit · 27/05/2016 09:42

I object and I'm a Christian.

hettie · 27/05/2016 09:43

I've been there (when dc's were little and I innocently thought it was "just a zoo"). These website might portray that they give 'both sides of the argument' but in reality the place itself is very pro creationism. There literature, posters and daily 'talk' are no holds bar full on creationism as fact (especialy as presented to children). Frankly there is no 'both sides of the argument', it's as delusional as believing in fairies. Fine for consenting adults, but completely inappropriate for kids. My DC's school were proposing a trip there and myself and a few other parents raised a concern...they didn't go in the end

JasperDamerel · 27/05/2016 09:43

I would be horrified if my kids were taken on a school trip there. I grew up in Northern Irelend where quite a few people have pretty extreme religious beliefs, and the schools always kept science absolutely science-based. Creationism isn't just a quirky religious belief - it is a wilful ignoring of evidence and I would be very, very unhappy if a school did anything to encourage or support this.

WorraLiberty · 27/05/2016 09:44

She's 5. I'm sure she'll be more interested in the animals than anyone seeking to discredit science and push creationism.

Also, I'm not sure how you having a good relationship with the teacher or head teacher make any difference.

Surely they'll listen to your view, the same as they would any other parent?

IRegretNothing · 27/05/2016 09:45

I live in Bristol and have been there. The enclosures are quite small and there is creationist propaganda everywhere. A friend posted this video on her facebook page recently, and it's sealed the deal for me. It's quite an old video I think but still relevant. They had an elephant die there not long after it's arrival too.

Can't do proper links, sorry!
RomComPhooey · 27/05/2016 09:47

I suppose it's better than that tourist attraction in the US where they have models of cavemen playing with dinosaurs (no, not the Flintstones, they really think that happened!).

The info boards at Noah's Ark Zoo in the creationist 'story' barn also have contemporaneous dinosaurs and humans in both the text and models. Grin DS1and DS2 were toddler and baby when we visited but DH and I took turns visiting the barn and came back Shock

corythatwas · 27/05/2016 09:53

The two problems that I can see with this trip are:

a) the animal welfare: most British zoos these days make an effort to only keep animals they can cater for (which is why you rarely see elephants in a zoo; they really are not suited and a single elephant should certainly not be kept)

b) the fact that, unlike the visit to the Mosque, the religious content is not an actual part of the teaching experience (this is what people believe), but smuggled in like the medicine in a pudding, as part of the enjoyment of the cute animals. That to me is a huge difference.

Even if I believed in creationism I would still be uncomfortable with this trip.

dodobookends · 27/05/2016 09:58

Religious beliefs and scientific fact should be kept apart IMHO.

Will they also be visiting the Natural History Museum as part of this term's animals topic?

mothermother · 27/05/2016 09:59

just don't send her,easy.

Original poster
SouperSal · 27/05/2016 09:59

Also, I'm not sure how you having a good relationship with the teacher or head teacher make any difference.

It means I'm comfortable expressing an issue with the proposal rather than sayin nothing.

OP posts:
EveryoneElsie · 27/05/2016 10:00

YANBU. Why is the school supporting a creationist zoo?

Original poster
SouperSal · 27/05/2016 10:00

Will they also be visiting the Natural History Museum as part of this term's animals topic?

Too far away.

OP posts:
exexpat · 27/05/2016 10:05

Given that all British state schools are banned from teaching creationism as science, it seems pretty clear-cut that a school trip linked to a science topic (animals) should not go to a zoo set up specifically to promote the creationist view.

BertrandRussell · 27/05/2016 10:05

"just don't send her,easy."

So she stays at school while all her friends go to the zoo. Yep. Easy.

And the school gives money to an organisation that promotes crazy extremism and the children are exposed to subtle anti science propaganda.

MythicalCreature · 27/05/2016 10:05

It's by chance I saw this thread.

If I hadn't I would have had no idea that my 7 year old would be going next term to a creationist zoo.

I didn't check just saw Zoo and though oh that would be nice for her and paid up. Never occurred to me to check further as I trusted the school now I feel I've let her down.

We very much have a science back ground and a set of beliefs rooted in that. I'm not going to be on the trip to put anything in context for her - so it's good I have a chance to start with that all now before she goes.

jo2107 · 27/05/2016 10:06

Personally wouldn't send my child there, i've nothing against zoo's if it's a good one and the animals are properly cared for, as, sadly, zoo's are in some places are the safest place for some of these animals given poaching etc :-(
I wouldn't want my child learning the creationism side of things though, my husband and i are half and half in that we do go to church occasionally (not just weddings etc but services) but we strongly believe in evolution and science.

EveryoneElsie · 27/05/2016 10:07

Badly run zoos are an anachronism. I wouldnt be comfortable with anyone who opened an exhibit with live animals in just to make some point about creationist theory.
If you read The Last Great Wild Beast Show by Bill Jordan and Stefan Ormerod, you'll see what Zoo Watch and other groups and individuals have been dealing with.

Bad zoos contribute nothing to conservation or animal welfare.
If there are endangered species in this zoo, I would explain this to DS and ask them if they want to go.

Along with the bizarre pseudo science aspect, this seems like an ill thought out trip.

MythicalCreature · 27/05/2016 10:07

The whole lower school is going - if I say she can't go she'll definitely feel she is missing out plus I've already paid for the bloody trip.