about DH taking DD (18mo) abroad on his own for five days

[basicallyobviously]

Since dd was born, DH and I have had quite defined roles. I have taken care of her at home and DH has worked and brought money in. I've been the one to get up in the night, see her through all the illnesses, organise all clothes, food, activities etc.

DH has been an okay, if frequently absent, Dad. He doesn't know what she likes to eat, where her clothes are, and he is not well versed in the way she communicates. She is happy when she is with him for the shorter bursts of time that she spends, but I know that she is happier with me generally (just at this point in her life - I fully expect this to change in the future!)

Normally he is too busy to take her, but he has surprised me by telling me he wants to visit his family soon for five days and he wants to take her with him. I cannot go because I have a family issue in this country which I need to deal with.

It all seems a good balance of parenting on the surface and maybe I can also attribute it to the fact that now she is older and more talkative he feels he has a better chance at bonding with her (as opposed to her being EBF and attached to me). However... I have a really strong niggle that he will just dump DD with MIL/aunt (who DD doesn't know) and go off to do his own thing. I'm also aware that MIL has been pressuring him to bring DD with him because she wants to see her (perfectly fine of course, but that is pretty guaranteed childcare.)

On the flipside it could be a really good wake-up call for him about how relentless it is to care for and entertain a toddler day and night - something which he has no idea of. But am I taking too much of a risk by letting her go and hoping his baptism of fire is a success?!

Also, a part of me is in total denial that it could happen. There has not been a day of her life where she has not seen me. And to be suddenly whisked off abroad for five days and out of her normal routine might be scary for her.

Am I being PFB? AIBU?

There is no reason to think that the two of them will bond magnificently and he will become a nurturing, empathetic person, as it's not a film! It's more likely that it will be a pretty miserable experience all round. Plenty of people never attune to their children's needs, sadly.

Not that I am saying he never will attune to her! But if he is committed to becoming an engaged, responsible parent, he needs to work at it every day, many times a day.

What was he like, and what were you like, when she was newborn and the two of you presumably knew as little as one another? Did you try to involve him then and he resisted?

Does he normally deal with difficult situations by whining and holding his ears (this does not sound entirely normal for an adult regardless of what the crisis is)?

Have to say, on what you have told us, I would not be happy for him to take her away now. Can quite see your point there.

But I would feel inclined to tell him that things have to change. And as Bragadaccio said, he will have to work at it every day. Tell him you cannot guarantee to remain in perfect health for the next 10 or 11 years until she could look after herself in a crisis. In the meantime, she has two parents and needs to be able to rely on either of them.

I think he needs to build a relationship with dd first. He doesn't sound like he is ready for such a long time away, but if he helps out more and learns her routine there is no reason why he can't take her away sometime.

But, it reads to me like you prefer the fixed boundaries and enjoy being the primary carer. If your dh is to help out more you have to be willing to relinquish control and let him do things his own way as well.

Following your update, unequivocal No.

Under no circumstances. No.

It doesn't sound like he is capable of even attempting to meet her needs at the moment, honestly.

That's an attitude thing and no amount of writing lists to explain her routine is going to compensate for him not being a responsive parent.

she would be going with her dad, not a stranger and there will be further family there as well. I get why you find it daunting, OP but I would let them go. they will be fine!

gives you also a break and you might actually enjoy that.

I think it would be healthy for your dh to take on more responsibility at home regardless of this trip. If you are ill or urgently need to go away having a dh who your dd is close to and trusts to look after can be so reassuring.

You may need to tell dh at first what to do eg. Please can you change nappy and get her dressed, please can you feed her x for breakfast- she's so good at using her spoon now/ you will need to spoon feed her! It will take time but he will learn what she needs and is trying to communicate. I have a very mummys boy ds but dh is always hands on and constantly learning just as ds is changing and growing up!

If I were you in would go away for a day or weekend first if you can manage it and then have a conversation with dh about the 5 days and if it's realistic at the moment..

I have a difficult MIL who quite honestly doesnt know how to treat children.

But if my DDs were toddlers id let DH take them away to visit- and he did so. He rarely got an opportunity with work to see DDs or in laws but they were fine. Now that they are older and are affected by MILs attitude its more of a problem

Plus- 4 nights off? Let them go OP- if you want ill give you my 11 and 9yr olds and DH and ill sit and drink the gin and lie in bed all day in your honour

How long away is this trip? Could you compromise by saying he can go but only if he has some periods of looking after her solo - at home, trip out. You would need to be properly out of the picture and not make it easy by having everything sorted for him.

Until I finished maternity leave at 7 months my DH didn't do a great deal hands on for our baby (he did do a lot around the house though). This was partly my fault for automatically doing things and when he tried to do things standing over him. Since I went back (DD now 20 months) he has looked after her 1-2 days per week. It was a steep learning curve for him at first but they have a lovely relationship and I think it improved our relationship. He doesn't do everything the way I would but why should he.

By how long away I meant how long until he would go

Let the little one go with her Dad! He's an adult, he has family support and 5 days is hardly anything really. give him the opportunity to rise to the occasion.

My DH was pretty hands on - still is however there was no way I could have let him handle dd at 18 months for 5 days. He just couldn't have coped . He tries but there are somethings he just doesn't get / understand. I don't think I could have manged for 5 days wondering if he and she is coping. So I fully understand you OP. ( and mine did change nappies, gave them milk etc etc).

OK, given that changing a nappy didn't even occur to him, then y ou need to have a chat mentioning this to his and ask how he thinks he could cope for 5 days, or ask him if he's hoping his mum will make all the decisions for him? Ask if he can't get through one morning routine without resorting to putting his hands over his ears and essentially ignoring the problem rather than fixing it, does he think he'll suddenly cope for a week?

Some people if thrown in at the deep end will suddenly learn to cope and understand a toddler, however it's unfair to make your DD suffer for the first couple of days while he uses her to learn when he's failed to do so when you are there to help at home.

How did you learn what your DD likes/wants/needs? I presume by spending time with her.

How will he ever be allowed the chance to develop those skills if never allowed the oppertunity ?

Sure he might not do it your way but that doesn't make it the wrong way.

And I don't think him leaving DD with his parents should be an issue.

Assuming your husband doesn't have any learning disorders, this is deliberate incompetence. Looking after small children isn't hard.

Changing a nappy is an unpleasant job and he didn't want to do it. And why would he, when he knows you're going to swoop in and sort it out?

I don't think we have heard enough from the OP to decide if this is her not giving him the opportunities or him exercising deliberate incompetence or (most likely) a mix of both.

When my slightly prem ds was born I was rather ill for the first few days and not able to do much for him, so dh did most of his care. When I was able to shuffle up to do the first nappy, I was terrified by the sight of his tiny prem little legs: dh otoh was perfectly confident having already done the job for several days.

And then what do you think happened? I lost all incentive and never changed one of ds' nappies again? Of course not. Who would have excused a woman with that attitude? After an initial wail of "why didn't you tell me?" I gritted my teeth and got down to it. I learnt on the job. Because it was expected of me.

If he is that crap at looking after his dd,

• why didn't you FORCE him to learn what she needs? eg, instead of changing your dd nappies. just look and say calmly 'Oh she needs her nappy changed' and then leave him to it. Repeat the morning after and again and again. There is no way he will learn how to look after her if he is never IN CHARGE of looking after her. Have you notice that he has managed to get what he wanted, aka you felt you had to take over?
• why was he not involved in getting her up etc right fromm the strat so he could learn at the same time than you? Because I am sure, you like any other mums, have had to learn what makes your dd tick, what she doesn't like etc... And you've also made plenty opf mistakes along the way, mistakes that you've had to sort out. Are you allowing him to make mistakes?

As for the whining, sorry but did you get married to a toddler or an adult??

Btw, being away with her for 5 days might be a very rude awakening for him but I suspect that it will be a very good thing, both for him and for your dd.
That is if you want them to build a very striong bond coming form having spent plenty of time together and learning to trust each other.

What I find a bit odd about the responses, is that if all the ways DH behaves towards DD were in fact towards, say, a vulnerable old person: a parent confused by later stage dementia, without continence, lacking standard communication, used to a routine and a familiar face, no-one would say, "yeah, just throw them together and see how it works out".

Imagine if someone came on MN and said their brother (who never normally is interested in engaging meaningfully or caring for their mother at all) wanted to take their DM away for 5 days, but he neglects to change her continence protection, doesn't hydrate her when she needs it, gets bewildered by her vocalisations and puts his hands over his ears and tells her to stop. I can't believe any MNer would, in that situation, advise letting him take her away and 'giving him a chance'.

Why should a child have to be exposed to the kind of treatment that an older person would not?

Given that there is zero trust of your DH with your daughter I'd say there are bigger issues than a 5-day holiday to sort out. Have you raised these issues?

I would never have allowed my son to go anywhere with his dad but he pissed off when he was born and hasn't seen him for nearly 20 years. Very worrying that your husband doesn't know his daughter yet lives with her.

OP is this the larger issue? Is he really that incompetent with your DD? All this talk about being away from the primary carer doesnt' wash with me. I went back to full time work when my DD was four months old. My DP was the primary carer and he wouldn't have thought I was going to have issues by taking my DD away to see family for a few days. I think children are adaptable and used to having two carers, two parents, in most circumstances. If you split he will be entitled to access. Your dd is entitled to a relationship with him and her grandparents. I cannot see that what he is proposing is unreasonable at all. But we just have you're point of view as to whether he is that bad of a father. And if he is, what is the plan to do something about it?

But equally Bragadocia have you ever heard about a brother/son behaving in that way towards someone with dementia?
Would you expect a brother/son to whine because he doesn't understand what the older person needs/wants?
Or would you expect them to turn round and ask? And more importanty LEARN what is working for the person they are responsible of?

You are right, if someone was behaving like this towards someone with dementia, they would not be left in charge of them. How is that, then, that the OP's DH can still have parental responsibility for that child?

As far as I am concerned, the fact he has parental responsibility means he is responsible of that child and needs to buckle up.

The reason people are saying 'just send the child' is because his toddler like behaviour is very probably coming from the fact iot allows him to get away with it and not participate in all the 'unsavoury bits' of being a parent.
If this is not the case and he can not possibly look after his 18 months old on his own, then he shouldn't have parental responsibility. He would to have some verfy serious issues to arrive at that stage though....

My dh would regularly take our daughter over to his parents for 2 or 3 nights as soon as she stopped night feeds and could be settled other ways if she woke. I worked some weekends and sometimes it was nice for a break. It's her dad I don't see the issue

Bragadocia, a fair few of us are not advising letting him take her away on this occasion, but to force him to get to work with learning how to cope with her at home.

I imagine that the posters who are advising the OP to let him take her do it because they do not believe he suffers from some uncontrollable condition, such as dementia, but suspect that he is helpless in the sense of my teenager who seems incapable of cleaning her own bedroom but copes perfectly well with any cleaning tasks involved in her day job- because there she doesn't get a choice. I have known her to dissolve in tears of helplessness over the state of her room, but given that she is still in the same job and has been offered promotion, I take it she deals rather differently with a similar situation at work.

I would not put this to the test at the potential cost of an 18mo baby. But unless the OPs dh really does have SN, then I do wonder if those other posters do not have a point. The place to test that is in the safety of the child's own home.