about DH taking DD (18mo) abroad on his own for five days

[basicallyobviously]

Since dd was born, DH and I have had quite defined roles. I have taken care of her at home and DH has worked and brought money in. I've been the one to get up in the night, see her through all the illnesses, organise all clothes, food, activities etc.

DH has been an okay, if frequently absent, Dad. He doesn't know what she likes to eat, where her clothes are, and he is not well versed in the way she communicates. She is happy when she is with him for the shorter bursts of time that she spends, but I know that she is happier with me generally (just at this point in her life - I fully expect this to change in the future!)

Normally he is too busy to take her, but he has surprised me by telling me he wants to visit his family soon for five days and he wants to take her with him. I cannot go because I have a family issue in this country which I need to deal with.

It all seems a good balance of parenting on the surface and maybe I can also attribute it to the fact that now she is older and more talkative he feels he has a better chance at bonding with her (as opposed to her being EBF and attached to me). However... I have a really strong niggle that he will just dump DD with MIL/aunt (who DD doesn't know) and go off to do his own thing. I'm also aware that MIL has been pressuring him to bring DD with him because she wants to see her (perfectly fine of course, but that is pretty guaranteed childcare.)

On the flipside it could be a really good wake-up call for him about how relentless it is to care for and entertain a toddler day and night - something which he has no idea of. But am I taking too much of a risk by letting her go and hoping his baptism of fire is a success?!

Also, a part of me is in total denial that it could happen. There has not been a day of her life where she has not seen me. And to be suddenly whisked off abroad for five days and out of her normal routine might be scary for her.

Am I being PFB? AIBU?

[ronjo]

Someone mentioned above that maybe you should go away to visit a friend for one night.
Would you consider trying this to see how they got on together?

[BathshebaDarkstone]

To PPs saying he's her dad, don't be ridiculous, it sounds like he has no clue how to care for her. My DH is the same, he took the DC to the park, before he went he wanted me to put potty-training DS in Pull Ups, which he only wore at night, or he wanted to bring him home if he wet himself. I put pants and trousers in a bag and told him to get on with it. That was only for half an hour though, and he didn't have to feed him.

[Bragadocia]

Corythatwas, no no, in my example I was saying "replace 'baby' with 'person with dementia'". Not suggesting that the person doing the 'caring' has any condition. I totally agree with those saying 'let him care for her at home'. Or rather 'see if he can bothered to care for her at home before considering him taking her away'.

Parental responsibility means you should be responsible, but it doesn't mean that you actually will be responsible. A decent person in this situation would take a critical look at themselves and think "there's a reason I shouldn't be taking DD away alone, and I need to address this to promote a loving, solid relationship".

I would be interested to know how loving, supportive and empathetic this man has been in his pre-child relationship with the OP.

[SmashingTurnips]

At first I would have said YABU but having read your latest post about how useless he is I think you are right to feel concerned.

At best he will dump her on his mother and it sounds like at worst he will fail to look after her and be unpleasant to her.

Why should the child have to go through that? This doesn't sound like a case of a lazy incompetent dad who has just never bothered to change nappies because he knows his wife will do it. It sounds much worse.

I would be questioning him as to why he wants to take her when he can't act like an adult around her for half an hour in the morning. What would he do if she is crying and you are not there to deal with things?

Presumably his plan is to have his mother look after her. Do you know his mother, is she competent and kind?

If he is too pathetic to look after his own child then too bad for the extended family - the problem is him, not you and I would be tempted to call MIL up and explain your concerns to her if a fuss is made about DD not visiting them.

[corythatwas]

Sorry, Bragadocia, completely misread your post

Still, now I have read your comparison of the baby with a person with dementia, what is the conclusion there? That the same female relative (daughter or DIL) should be required to care for the dementia patient every day ever week of the year and not be allowed to "dump" them even on a competent other person (nursing home for the dementia patient, MIL in the case of the toddler) that they do not know. Do people with experience of caring for dementia sufferers think this is reasonable?

I don't think this analogy stands up precisely because to me it is so obvious that requiring one person to do the dementia care without respite is unreasonable and inhumane (which can hardly be said about a woman caring for her own toddler) and sooner or later you would have to have a back-up plan.

[SoftSheen]

YANBU. 5 days is too long to leave a baby/young toddler with an inexperienced carer in a unfamiliar place. Yes they will survive but is could be quite distressing for them. If it was an emergency situation then fair enough, but not out of choice.

I would suggest that DH starts off by looking after DD for a full day all by himself, and see how he gets on.

[Bragadocia]

I don't understand - I didn't say anything like that at all.

I said it is undesirable to put vulnerable people with needs under the responsibility of people who demonstrate a lack of care.

Nursing home - good
Nursery - good
Childminder - good
Adult who appears to be overwhelmed by two mins of crying - not so good

[Isetan]

Parenting is a piece of cake until you have to parent and the problem with your dynamic is, your H knows you're always willing to take up the slack for his laziness and inexperience. Your MIL is a stranger to your daughter but everyone is until they have the opportunity to be in her company, do you trust. your MIL to look after your daughter, if you do, then let her be your daughter's safety net for five days.

I don't know how much time you have but I would definitely encourage him to be more hands on by leaving him and her alone. I understand why you've ended up where you are but this is what happens when you enable him to be a hands off parent. Hopefully this will be the catalyst for you having higher expectations of him as a parent and this is not just for his benefit but for DD's as well.

[Thurlow]

There's a much bigger issue here.

Your DH is being so deliberately useless and incompetent with your DD that you've stepped up and allowed him to completely abdicate himself from any caring role at all.

It was probably very unconsciously and gradually done, and it's almost surprising to read that second update when you've been writing pretty rationally about him needing a wake up call but...

How, how, how has it come to this? That he doesn't even change a dirty nappy in the morning, that he deliberately ignores any information you give him?

Take a look back at what you've written above. Can you imagine if one of your friends told you her DH was being like this? What would you say?

In the normal run of things, a dad has exactly the same rights as a mum to go what he likes with his children, and it's not a mum's position to "allow" or "let" him take a child away for a few days. In the normal run of things, your DD is going to stay with an extended family and it sounds like a lovely thing for everyone to do. If your DH was just a bit inexperienced at doing certain things, I'd be first in the queue to say this would be a great learning experience.

But I'm sorry, when one partner has got to the point that after eighteen months of parenting they still can't run through a simple list of "are they hungry, are they tired, are they wet, are they hurt" to work out what a young child might be crying then there are some seriously big issues within your relationship and your family dynamic that need looking at.

And your DD spending 5 days with grandma (which she'll probably absolutely love and everything will be great) is not the way, because your DH is just going to pass her over to his mum.

I'd be saying quite simply that I'm sorry, anyone who isn't capable after a year and a half of remembering that a nappy needs changing first thing in the morning is an absolute tool and it isn't even worth talking about.

[EBearhug]

How far ahead is the trip? Have you time enough where you can leave him in charge for a day, then a weekend? Then there's time to make sure he knows how to change a nappy and when, what sort of food she should be having, what food she likes, how much food she should have, how often, and the same with drinking. It's all things he should learn anyway - the trip is just highlighting that he hasn't.

[bluecashmere]

Reading this thread with interest.

OP, I completely understand your concerns and agree with you, but I've been surprised by the amount of support you've received and some might disagree but to me it highlights the difference between 'normal' and separated families.

ExP did nothing to care for DS and had no experience of looking after him or even leaving the house with him alone. He showed no interest in DS. Because of this and DA I left when DS was 1.

From that point I was told by all around except for close family that my concerns about contact were unfounded. It's really difficult to see your child who only knows you and relies on you for everything being put into a situation you are completely uncomfortable with and being looked after by someone with no skills and dumped on relatives. Even though DS is now a bit older, it's not just missing him that concerns me, it's how he's looked after and how that will impact on him now and in the future.

I don't feel that even on MN this kind of thing is acknowledged and people are told about dad's rights, they are as much a parent etc.

Sorry for going off subject a little but it just struck me that the tone is so different to 'contact' threads. I'm expecting some will disagree!

[Justontherightsideofnormal]

Wave them off open the wine and pop your feet up

[Shelby2010]

I would be more worried about the journey tbh. Either a long drive or drive plus flights, I presume. Travelling with small children can be stressful at the best of times. How will he cope when she's tired but won't nap on the aeroplane and will he remember to fit food in at appropriate times?

You don't have to go away overnight but at least start going out for the day. Leave instructions at first - sounds like he needs them.

Also point out that DD may become super clingy to him while away & not want to be left with Grandma.

[Liz87]

I would find this very difficult. In fact I probably wouldn't be comfortable my daughter being taken abroad without me. She's 4, very secure I'm sure she'd be fine without me but I would worry if, God forbid, anything happened, I wouldn't be able to get there. I'd be fine if she went on holiday in the uk though.
I'm sure your daughter will be fine with dad. They'll probably come back best friends!!!!

[xinchao]

Really interesting (and shocking) to read responses on this thread. My son has been away with me and his father (my DH)...mainly to visit family as we're all spread around the globe....and his life is richer for it. We even leave him with his nanny and have the odd weekend away ourselves

I simply can't imagine being in a relationship with someone I considered to be so incompetent at parenting that I wouldn't ALLOW them to visit their own mother with their own child. Really outside my experience.

[xinchao]

Are you BU? I don't know...but I do think your husband IBU. How is it after 18 months he isn't able to meet her basic needs?!

[Kitsa]

Don't do it! Tell him you are putting your daughter first and if he doesn't like it too bad. Maybe it would be a wakeup call for him but not worth it at the price of her being disoriented and upset.

She will want you and you probably won't have a moment's peace because of (justified) worry that she isn't happy.

He can take her next time, she's right there for him to form a better bond with and learn to look after properly and the only person stopping him is him.

[Inkanta]

Go with him. What is the family issue you have to stay back for?

[claireehmurray]

My dd's father and I don't live together so whenever she goes to stay with him it leaves a hole behind and especially so right at the beginning when I was still bf her. Up till then he'd only had sons and I was worried he wouldn't know how to deal with her.
3 years on it now know it was unfounded and unfair of me.

Let them go. And just keep in touch if you have to.

[ToomuchChocolatemeansBootcamp]

I was wavering but following your recent update, OP, it's a no from me. He sounds utterly useless - seriously, how hard is it to figure out about a morning nappy?? Does he not go to the toilet first thing in the morning himself and maybe, just maybe make the link to her discomfort in a wet nappy? What a prat. Sorry OP he needs to do a lot more work on understanding and caring for your dd before he goes abroad with her (can you imagine the flight?!)

[PerthMummy91]

I'm so sorry but this is ridiculous! Nothing upsets me more than hearing of a mother with a child who has never been away from them - it's not healthy for you or them! I have two toddlers and they frequently visit family and stay overnight at grandparents and it's great! Perfect for Mummy and Daddy to get time together or work or get things done that are better without kids nearby... Great for going away without panicking! I would wholeheartedly trust my husband to take the kids away for any length of time by himself.

My kids are really independent and sociable and great playing with others and I genuinely believe thats because we never smothered them with our attention or kept anyone away.

She will be fine! Give her this opportunity to get to know her daddy and other family and enjoy some rest time to yourself! :)

(PS not saying you won't miss her, I miss the kids everytime they are away but you learn to live with it and enjoy bits then really looking forward to seeing them again after. It's 5 days, not weeks/months/years :) )

[babyboomersrock]

Nothing upsets me more than hearing of a mother with a child who has never been away from them - it's not healthy for you or them!

Have you read the thread? Why on earth does it upset you that some people prefer to keep their dc with them - or at least ensure that they're with people who know how to meet their needs?

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that OP's dh isn't used to looking after his dd and acts all helpless when asked to do so - some of us are thinking about the effect on the toddler, not the parents.

The dc deserves to feel safe and secure and if her father cares about her, he'll make sure he learns to look after her before he even considers taking her away for 5 days to stay with people she doesn't know.

[PirateFairy45]

Sounds like same issue me and DH would have. He has no idea and even when he walks her up to my parents house (literally 2 mins up the road), my parents care for DD, not DH.

So I wouldn't be comfortable with him taking her alone. I get where you're coming from!

[basicallyobviously]

I feel really supported by your posts, thank you.

I have vetoed her going on the trip and I'm going to keep DD with me. I think on some level he was relieved and on another was wondering how he was going to explain it to MIL.

I still feel frustrated though, that he doesn't know what it's like to have her day and night, and I have given him yet another excuse not to find out.

I still don't know whether I am being unreasonable in accusing him of being an incompetent parent?

He can make her laugh and he pretends to chase her which makes her shriek with excitement. They have quite a rough and tumble relationship where he "attacks" her and she fights back a bit & laughs or bats him in the face. It's all very sweet. But he just doesn't, just can't, just I-don't-know-what, meet her needs.

He is more like a visiting, playful uncle. She recognises him only as someone that she plays with for short periods of time. So when they interact, it all depends on her being in the right mood to be played with. He can't seem to read her situation and work out what she needs. If he picks her up or tries to engage with her when she's not in the mood to be held upside down or tickled (which is 70% of the time) she will say "no no no no" and struggle against him and gesture to me and shout "Mummy, mummy!" because that is all that she associates him with, if you see what I mean?

If I leave the room with him holding her she will burst out crying and start shouting for me again.

Is this just normal toddler behaviour with their mums? Is this what all 18 mo's do?

[Cagliostro]

Normal for a toddler who is with mostly their mum to be clingy towards them, I'd say, but not normal for the other parent to be so drastically incapable of meeting their needs :(

I wonder if maybe he was actually hoping you'd say no. That way you're the bad guy.

I would go with what others have suggested and only attempt shorter amounts of time.