To want to 'protect' a newborn from smokers?

[jonsnowssocks]

This is all theoretical atm, but am 8 months pregnant so will probably turn into an issue soon.

Lots of smokers amongst friends and family and I'm not sure how to handle them when it comes to visiting and holding the baby. Ideally, I'd ask anyone who has recently smoked to wash their hands, brush their teeth and change any smoky clothes before touching the little one, but would that make me just totally over-the-top precious about it? What would be a good compromise?

I'd imagine Auntie joan can do without a fag for an hour or two if she wants a cuddle and she's not an unreasonable chain smoking fag hag.

I dont know any smokers but yanbu. I dont care if that makes me a snowflake i wouldnt like it either.

I think Bertie sums it all up rather nicely.
Common sense.

inlove The health of one's baby is, of course, paramount in all parents' decision making, but removing all risk is neither possible nor healthy.

How is removing risk unhealthy?

Bertie nicely put. The people I'm worried about are people who we're not likely to see often, so I can ask them to wash their hands/not smoke, but I'll try not to get my knickers in a twist for the sake of them holding the baby for five minutes.

Someone else has said but as well as the washing hands etc they should also keep clear for a minimum of 2 hours.
Join a couple of baby groups and make new friends! It's 2016- who can afford to smoke now?

Jon, 'how is removing risk unhealthy?'

You will never be able to eliminate all risk to your child in relation to all potential hazards. Our job as parents is to teach children how to manage risk within the confines of normal social relationships and the modern world in which we live. For me, teaching a child that you have to stand ten foot from a smoker until two hours after they have had a fag, make someone wash their hands before touching you, cut up food into minute pieces that are immediately digestible, goes beyond risk management and into crazy helicopter parenting. I have seen first hand that this can make anxious, high maintenance children who are unable to make simple decisions - for me much worse than the risks those steps seek to eliminate. Beware the beast you create. Parenting doesn't have to be quite so black and white, it is a very much nuanced profession.

Inlove - There have been studies proving the risk of third hand smoke, however, I agree that a cuddle with a relative as a one off who had a fag a few minutes ago is unlikely to cause any harm.

OP is talking about several family/friends I assume who will be around the baby quite often when it is a newborn, that is when clothes should be changed. I made the mistake of allowing my father who is a heavy smoker to hold my 2 month old baby after he had smoked, she would lick his clothing and after a stay at my parents where this happened regularly she developed a chest infection, could it be coincidence? Absolutely. Is it worth me taking the risk ever again? Absolutely not.

I used to politely ask folk if they minded not smoking, indoors, most friends relatives just ignored me. When my youngest was a baby, she was diagnosed with Asthma very quickly, so I used to say please dont smoke indoors, because of that, but as you say, it was still on their clothes hair. We all know the dangers of passive smoking now. None smoking relatives used to tell me I was being unreasonable to the smokers, because they couldnt give up. My Mil twerks, when you say something she doesnt like, hands on hips. Actually we dont speak to her anymore. Try and get the backup of your midwife. it is even more complicated when you go to the house of the smokers!

Inlove, sounds to me like you're the one being black and white here... I'm hardly going to cut up grapes to give to a child while explaining, 'because grapes are dangerous and you might choke and die!', but I think cutting them up is prudent. Nor would I teach a child to stand 10 feet away from a smoker in case they get cancer and die! (I'd hope they'd do it on their own if they don't like the smell, and I know plenty of adults who won't stand near a lit cigarette as well!).

I think we can certainly take steps to protect babies without anyone getting hysterical about it

nannybeach I definitely won't be taking dc into any houses where people smoke inside. Fortunately I only know one couple who smoke inside; unfortunately it's my best friend, who can get quite narky when people suggest smoking is unhealthy, and who doesn't much like children anyway! No matter how I explain it to her, I will most likely thoroughly offend her.

I once knew a woman (back in the days of beyond) who let her toddler ride in the front of a van without a seatbelt while she drove at high speed through twisting village lanes. She felt that any precautions taken would be the first step of a slippery slope of hysterical overprotection. The rest of us felt she was the one being hysterical, not the ordinary people who took a few ordinary safety precautions. Don't know why I suddenly came to think of her...

Wait until you try to leave the hospital and all the selfish inconsiderate people smoking outside the door, despite signs not to smoke in the area because the maternity ward in next door!

"Parenting doesn't have to be quite so black and white, it is a very much nuanced profession."

Exactly. Which is why so many of us have managed to slice up a few grapes without descending into crazy helicopter managing.

Nobody is saying that the OP should tell her school aged child to stand 10 feet from a smoker or cut up her food. But then, you know, she probably won't be changing her school aged child's nappies either or letting her live mainly on milk. Most of us manage to let our parenting evolve as the child grows.

Babies are exposed to the risk of SIDS, older children are not. So they need to be treated differently. Just as you don't need to take precautions about online access when it comes to newborn babies- because they are not at risk. You do whatever is needed for that particular age group.

I also think babies in your room for 6 months and cutting grapes up are similarly bonkers

Well, you're lucky your dc didn't choke and die from eating whole grapes, then, hubby, as this happens.

While you are stressing over a few people who may have smoke on their clothes are you also thinking about not taking your baby outside near any roads because of traffic fumes? Chemicals in your own house?
All these things have been proved to be dangerous.
These reports do not mean that occasional contact means death. They mean they are best avoided if/when possible.

The risk with the smoking on the clothes is for prolonged contact,..not occasional visits.

I have had two babies in France recently and ALL pregnant women here are told to avoid soft cheese, wash all fruit and veg, don't eat salad in restaurants, don't drink wine...this false line about French women drinking wine and eating brie when they're pregnant is NOT TRUE.

I definitely agree that you are not being U. Anything you can reasonably do to reduce the risk of sids (and reduce your anxiety whilst the smoker has their hands on your baby) is worth doing imo.

Cocktail, you're right, freak accidents do happen. But they are exactly that, freak accidents, and I don't change my behaviour for minuscule risks which are statistically almost certainly never going to happen. My kids eat sitting down, calmly, sensibly. If your child wanders around with snacks, as is bizarrely the modern norm, then whatever it is it will present a choking risk.

One of the choking hazards cited in another thread was a sandwich - but you wouldn't cut up a sandwich would you? In that other thread an 8 year old child was not allowed boiled sweets because of the choking hazard they allegedly pose. There is the ripple effect right there.

"They mean they are best avoided if/when possible"

Going outside for doctors visits etc, not possible to avoid.

Asking visitors to bring a smoke jacket/coat and wash hands before holding newborn, easily avoidable and not a big ask at all.

Inlove - if you can minimize the risk of a freak accident by cutting up a few grapes, would you not do so? It takes less than 20 seconds. By doing so, it doesn't mean that your child will grow up scared of every possible little thing that could potentially harm them. It just means as a parent you are taking care of your responsibility and avoiding a potential fatality..even if the risk is very low

I don't change my behaviour for minuscule risks which are statistically almost certainly never going to happen

I do. If it's a simple thing like cutting up a grape, putting baby to sleep on back, using appropriate car restraint, why wouldn't you?

Obviously you can't protect against every risk, and I don't wrap them in cotton wool- eldest is one of the best in the country at an extreme sport. It's a risk/benefit balance. Cutting up a grape or avoiding boiled sweets in young children requires no effort, but the potential benefit is huge.

Statistically minuscule things do happen. People win the lottery, get rare diseases. If I can reduce the risk I will. I bet the parents whose children have died choking on grapes wish they had known it could be avoided by simply cutting it up.

It's my decision to make. If you choose to ignore the advice as over hysterical that that's your choice.

What Im going to say is my very personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to, but I'm prepared not everyone will agree with.

Before discharging us from the hospital, few midwifes who were caring for us kept asking if anyone in our household smoked. We said no one did. Then they kept asking if it's likely we were going to have visitors who smoked, we said yes that's likely. They then spent no less than 30 mins explaining how very important it is that visitors don't smoke 2h before coming to see the baby, change their clothes, wash hands and brush teeth. Like I said, it wasn't just one person telling us that, but as our discharge was a bit lengthy, it had been handed over to 2 other mw, who all stated the importance of it. We were also given leaflets and handouts on third hand smoking, which I'd never heard of before. We came home and I did lots of googling about it. NHS advise is to keep baby away from second and third hand smoking.

I'm quite ott generally about certain things, but when I had my baby, all previous ott paled into insignificance. I knew if a friend wouldn't be understanding about smoke and my worries, not a big deal of losing such a friend (well tbh I haven't got a single smoker friend, but my dh has). My dh was fully on board, and he has plenty of smokers among his family and friends. We politely asked them not to smoke before coming over. If someone just popped in without much of a notice, I pretended I had to feed a baby in another room and would have refused handing him over if they'd insisted. What's more important I thought, being thought of as a rude ott nutter, or my baby's health? I couldn't care less what people would think of me. He is my precious little baby and I'd do what's in my power to reduce the risk of any problems for him. Im fully aware I can't control everything, but that's precisely why it becomes so much more important to control whatever I can.

IMHO, you are doing the right thing by planning to shield your baby from the risks of second and third hand smoking. Your baby is going to be very lucky to have such a lovely mum.

Congratulations btw and good luck with birth.

Micah - couldn't agree more. You said everything I wanted to but couldn't quite articulate.