To lose potential friends over this issue?

[kogasa]

First AIBU post, so bear with me.

I'm a very, very logical person, I like to think, but I'm struggling to reconcile my thoughts here.

I recently made a point to a lot of the people I know that I thought it was absolutely barmy to not vaccinate yourself, or your children. To me, it feels like a social responsibility - if you don't vaccinate, people with cancer, AIDS, younger kids who haven't been immunised, and a whole multitude of people are put at risk. Most people nodded in appreciation - this was provoked by a really sad article I read about some parents not vaccinating their children, and then trying to treat them with 'natural medicine' when the illnesses hit. The kid died, unsurprisingly.

However, in bringing this up, I've found out that one of my closest friends seems to believe the guff about the vaccines 'causing autism' (Nevermind that the MD who alleged this link was struck off the medical register for manipulating research for his own financial ends), or that they have 'too much aluminium that I don't want in my kid's body.' (regardless of the fact that, there's more aluminium in cheese and gaviscon than there ever is in vaccines, paired with a basic misunderstanding of chemistry and how the body excretes things.)

For a bit of background, this friend decided radically, about two years ago to become fully vegan. Fully support her there, great choice for the environment in some ways, but I won't get into that now. What came with it were some bizarre rituals where she'd only eat fruit until 4PM, but fair enough, it's not my life, and some weird beliefs involving how GMOs are obviously full of crap even though they save countless farmers in developing countries from poor yields, or hunger. And even then, fair enough. She's western and privileged, and she has the choice to buy her food, luckily for her, she is not starving.

I can tell she's been trying to pussyfoot around the issue with me, and since we talked, she's been contacting me, telling me to read countless books that, upon further inspection seem to be made by people just wanting to sell 'all natural remedies' to me, or pseudo-research paperbacks. I can tell she is trying really, really hard to make an effort to try be sensitive about this, but also pushing the idea really hard, and I get the idea that she thinks less of me, and I think less of her.
We are high school best friends and it makes me really sad that her transformation led to this. I have no issues with her diet or lifestyle, but when she starts to impact other people, I just can't help but feel disappointed and sad.

But, and here's my AIBU,
AIBU to not just 'accept a different viewpoint', and lose a potential friend over this?
I'm not going to insult her , or end the friendship, but I can't compromise my views on an issue like this. Should I?

I don't thi k you sound pompous op. I agree with you: and your friend sounds like an ignoramus. However, it's probably not worth losing an old friend over, I have a bigoted friend who hates Eastern European immigration, I've known her for fifteen years, we just avoid the topic. If she started going on anti immigration rallies or joined Britain First I would end the friendship, in your position if an anti vaxxer friend just aired views privately: fine. If they started trying to convert others or getting all militant about it, I'd have to say bye!

DoreenLethal is your POV that the negative issues surrounding GMO crops outweigh the benefits? I'm thinking in particular about crops like dwarf wheat and their role in preventing famine. Norman Boulaug won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work in this area.

Actually, now that I write that - I realise that I'm not even sure that dwarf wheat is a GMO or just a hybrid - or even what the difference is. So take that question at face value - I know bugger all about this area, but you clearly know a lot so would love to mine your brain and understand more!

I appreciate my wording is a little wooden. Honestly people laugh at how I phrase stuff all the time so I cannot get worked up about that.

Nor should you! I love reading all the different writing styles on MN

I'd love a GMO thread. My dad, a smart guy with questionable priorities, has among his pet topics a reverence for pesticides and GMOs and considers all the hand-wringing to be the the root of much hunger.

Queen - I'm absolutely no expert whatsoever, but I think there's a distinction between breeding to encourage some traits within a species (like Borlaug's work backcrossing different kinds of wheat) and GM tech which introduces genetic material from other species into wheat at a molecular level (producing a transgenic organism).

Also, much of Borlaug's work predates GMO technology by decades! He was working on wheat in the 50s while Watson and Crick were still figuring out the double-helix structure DNA. The first GM plant was in the early 80s.

I don't get why this should affect your friendship. Have you never disagreed with a friend on an important issue before? How often does the subject of vaccination come up anyway?

You don't know much about GMOs.

I understand your friend is being pushy and manipulative and that's annoying. But you sound very quietly judgy too.

You're free to be friends with who you want but IMO you're being a little unreasonable not to try saying, 'we'll just have to agree to disagree, let's drop the subject'.

OP, I think what bothers me most about your post is the assumption that you can't be friends with somebody you disagree with.

Why should this be the case?

OP, I think what bothers me most about your post is the assumption that you can't be friends with somebody you disagree with.

Why should this be the case?

Some disagreements are trivial. Others aren't. I couldn't be friends with someone who I thought was stupid and wilfully ignorant in such a way that threatens the health of the general population.

To be honest my issue here would be that she was trying to change my mind....personally I would find it unacceptable after one message to continue. ....after a single message I'd have said "we disagree but both have our opinions please elect mine by not trying to bombard me and I shall do the same"....if it continued we would no longer be friends

The crux here is not rights or wrongs.... I am pro vaccination and privately get frustrated by those who quote pseudo science to justify anti vaxxing but I can get as frustrated as I like they are entitled to their view I just request that I am allowed mine

As it is said " I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death you're right to do it"

So right or wrong someone who like you're friend felt it was appropriate to change your mind is wrong

**One of the theories I read about why allergies are so common (50% of children these days have a proper allergy) is linked to the vaccination schedule and the fact that not all babies are born with a fully developed immune system.

This^

**Some children do react to vaccines

And this^

Can I ask where this was read? Was it a peer reviewed medical article that can be verified through independent sources?

😑

shovetheholly - you're absolutely correct, the timelines wouldn't make sees - doh!!! Well, if this thread has done anything good, it's motivated me to find out more about GM crops.

**Euripidesralph Can I ask where this was read?

"...new syndrome named "ASIA-Autoimmune/inflammatory Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants", which describes an umbrella of clinical conditions including post-vaccination adverse reactions. Recent studies implicate a web of mechanisms in the development of vaccine adjuvant-induced autoimmune diseases, in particular, in those associated with aluminium-based compounds."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26031899/?i=10&from=adjuvant%20vaccine%20autoimmunity

Lego your link doesn't say anything about the results of the trial, just what they're hoping to find.

Conversely, there's a lot of summaries I was able to find specifically ruling out the possibility of vaccines causing allergies, such as this one from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

Flaws in proposed biological mechanisms that explain how vaccines might cause chronic diseases are consistent with the findings of many well-controlled large epidemiologic studies that fail to show a causal relationship.

I personally don't think I could make friends with somebody who believed that, because some differences of opinion are too much to reconcile, and I agree with you that it's a social responsibility.

However, if I valued the friendship already and found that somebody felt that way I could probably get past it if we could agree not to discuss it. It would depend on how much I liked the person, in the same way that a lot of my friends have different political views but we just don't talk about politics and therefore get on smashing.

So, I don't think YABU to make this decision yourself. It depends on where your line is in terms of how important the issue is to you (for example I could never stay friends with somebody who didn't believe in same sex marriage, no matter how much I had liked them before discovering that) and how much you want to be friends with this person.

Friendships aren't mandatory and it's definitely OK to go off somebody for having radically different values

Thanks lego and whilst I take the point that it appears to be a reputable basis for discussion it by no means offers a definitive response....purely the recognition that there is an apparent correlative relationship ....not a direct cause and effect and that particular focuses on aluminium based compounds (yes I know they are heavily used) but not across the board

For these reasons this is why is frustrates me when definitive statements are made on the back of an article like that....it is not definitive it is identifying the possibility

Again that is my personal opinion and I can be as frustrated as I like other people can choose to read it differently and I can choose to require more proof

Simply stating your views on GMOs or vaccines is pretty irrelevant because my AIBU wasn't "To think GMOs are good" or "To think people who refuse vaccines are idiots." That's all. And I posted here for advice, not debate. If I wanted a debate, I would have phrased it accordingly.

OP, although irrelevant to the thread, I would like to say I completely understand what you are trying to get across. You sound like somebody who does not go off on tangents and does not cover seventy eight topics within a sentence. Some PP said she wouldn't be friends with you but I would!

In my opinion it is inevitable your friendship will somewhat suffer. It's not like you're disagreeing whether white bread or brown bread makes a better sandwich or something equally mundane. It's a major difference of opinion about something pretty much fundamental to life. I personally could not feel the same about someone who is suddenly anti vaccination.

I understand your point and have the same problem. I have a friend who has similar views, knows we disagree and we both politely avoid these topics but her DH cannot help himself. I have blocked him on FB because he raises my blood pressure but every time I see him he just has to go on and on about endless conspiracies by big pharma, agricultural companies, etc. I find him insufferable.

Another friend is convinced her DC had a fever of 40 as a result of chemicals in a vaccination. She refused a lumbar puncture to rule out meningitis going against medical advice and was furious at the doctors for not taking her vaccine concerns seriously. When I tried to mention some facts about mercury and aluminium she told me to go educate myself.

And, as a general point not directed at the OP, yes you can be a logical person and one person can definitely be more logical than another - I am a logic teacher, you can take my word for it!

I don't know how I could have forgotten this one...DH's best friend, whom I have also known since school, has developed an interest in alternative therapies and believes strongly that cleaning his chakras is the way to go when you need medical help. He once said he managed to stave off the common cold by removing the influence of the evil eye (Greek superstition that you can be made Ill by someone giving you the evil eye) and I gave up on him as unsupportable stupid.

I 100% disagree with her stance and I would tell her. I've said on here before, and would say to a friend if pushed, that not vaccinating (medical reasons excepted of course) is stupid and dangerous. I'm not sure I would be able to keep my tongue. I feel that strongly about it.

I also think that there shouldn't be any choice about it. You get your kid vaccinated unless there is a medical reason not to.

I also think that there shouldn't be any choice about it. You get your kid vaccinated unless there is a medical reason not to.

I have zero patience for non-vaccers (I've said I wouldn't choose to be friends with only because I find them so ignorant) but this is fascist. All you can do is restrict how much damage they can inflict upon others, e.g. make it a school requirement.