To lose potential friends over this issue?

[kogasa]

First AIBU post, so bear with me.

I'm a very, very logical person, I like to think, but I'm struggling to reconcile my thoughts here.

I recently made a point to a lot of the people I know that I thought it was absolutely barmy to not vaccinate yourself, or your children. To me, it feels like a social responsibility - if you don't vaccinate, people with cancer, AIDS, younger kids who haven't been immunised, and a whole multitude of people are put at risk. Most people nodded in appreciation - this was provoked by a really sad article I read about some parents not vaccinating their children, and then trying to treat them with 'natural medicine' when the illnesses hit. The kid died, unsurprisingly.

However, in bringing this up, I've found out that one of my closest friends seems to believe the guff about the vaccines 'causing autism' (Nevermind that the MD who alleged this link was struck off the medical register for manipulating research for his own financial ends), or that they have 'too much aluminium that I don't want in my kid's body.' (regardless of the fact that, there's more aluminium in cheese and gaviscon than there ever is in vaccines, paired with a basic misunderstanding of chemistry and how the body excretes things.)

For a bit of background, this friend decided radically, about two years ago to become fully vegan. Fully support her there, great choice for the environment in some ways, but I won't get into that now. What came with it were some bizarre rituals where she'd only eat fruit until 4PM, but fair enough, it's not my life, and some weird beliefs involving how GMOs are obviously full of crap even though they save countless farmers in developing countries from poor yields, or hunger. And even then, fair enough. She's western and privileged, and she has the choice to buy her food, luckily for her, she is not starving.

I can tell she's been trying to pussyfoot around the issue with me, and since we talked, she's been contacting me, telling me to read countless books that, upon further inspection seem to be made by people just wanting to sell 'all natural remedies' to me, or pseudo-research paperbacks. I can tell she is trying really, really hard to make an effort to try be sensitive about this, but also pushing the idea really hard, and I get the idea that she thinks less of me, and I think less of her.
We are high school best friends and it makes me really sad that her transformation led to this. I have no issues with her diet or lifestyle, but when she starts to impact other people, I just can't help but feel disappointed and sad.

But, and here's my AIBU,
AIBU to not just 'accept a different viewpoint', and lose a potential friend over this?
I'm not going to insult her , or end the friendship, but I can't compromise my views on an issue like this. Should I?

Think of it has her religious conversion. Avoid the contentious stuff and she will most likely calm down after a few years.

The one point I might make to her if she gave any more info on avoiding meds is the direct experience of your depression from which presumably she saw you improve - Simply put it that you personally are thankful for pharmaceuticals.

To be blunt...you both sound like people with strong, firm opinions, and you both have a history of sharing them iith others. I think the only way to move on is to agree to disagree, and stop discussing these topics together.

Then I would just try and avoid the topic. Say it is not your cup of tea, change the subject etc.

The best piece of advice I have ever had (as I am somewhat opinionated) is that if every time you tell someone who is wrong that they are wrong, you will never have time to do anything else in life.

Whether you can keep the friendship then depends on whether she can handle you having no interest in woo.

But yeah, it seems the consensus here is that if we can avoid talking about it, to not. I'm not sure how I should shut it down though, because honestly, whilst I am perfectly okay looking at and accepting her views, I don't want to feel like I have to constantly appreciate the things she's pushing on me, like these books.

I can appreciate that I might not be as well informed on issues as other people, or other posters, and I do continue to try to change that by researching things that mean a lot to me. I just don't think it's relevant if you disagree with me or not, because neither of our views would have caused the creation of this thread, were it not for her now trying to constantly change my mind, and me not knowing what to do because I don't think I can compromise my view.

I also appreciate I might have come across pompous - I didn't try to say I was -more- logical than her, or imply she wasn't - I actually meant this in relation to the situation at hand, not on my personal views, though obviously it applies. It was just the way I worded my post, and wasn't central to the conversation, but I will keep that in mind and try not to present myself as stifling or superior. And I'm sorry if anyone felt I was being arrogant in some way.

I think this friendship CAN work, and the general consensus is that if I can , I should try shut it down and resume things unrelated to the topic. However, I don't want to disappoint her, or push her away, if you get me? I don't want to refuse to read book after book, because I don't want to reject her, and I don't want her to feel like her opinion doesn't matter to me. But it's a such a big issue for me that I don't feel comfortable lying or pretending to be enthused about something I disagree on.

Thanks to those of you who have been helpful and also those who have been critical. I'll try to take all of it on board!

I just think you don't need to concern yourself with it so much and the way you wrote it sounds like you're asking for opinions on how to prove she's wrong, not on how to deal with maintaining a friendship. I'm a Christian. I have Christian friends, I have Jewish friends, I have Muslim friends. It's never occurred to me to be upset that we don't share the same views. You don't need to share views to have a great friendship.
If you want to read what she sends, do so, if not, say thank you and move on to something else. Debate can be interesting. Or not. It's no big deal, you have different beliefs but you have friendship in common.

Waitrose

I'm sorry if it came off like that. I think it just required background. I admit I did insert my opinion in the OP - I guess that was more because it was so shocking to me, and it's a very controversial topic that I wanted to emphasise our views on, because I think it gives more context and some people have said that it would be a complete deal breaker for them, and others have said it wouldn't. I think this helps me to make a decision, and my decision is that it shouldn't actually matter provided nobody forces anything, but it's quite exhausting to deal with and wondered if anybody had ideas on how to approach it.

Anyway, we too share differing beliefs and we get along very well. We've never tried to push those on one another, so perhaps I should just make it clear that it's of the same ilk, and off limits?

That sounds like a great idea!

I don't want to feel like I have to constantly appreciate the things she's pushing on me, like these books.

You don't have to. If she's allowed her views, so are you. Make it clear you don't see eye to eye on this and you don't want to agree to disagree. If she's a good friend she'll accept that...If she's gone off the deep end and believes she has to 'convert' you to her way of thinking, well, then it's her ending the friendship, not you.

I have a several friends who have converted to Islam in the ten years I've been living in the Middle East. I still speak and get on quite well with all of them except one, because they went totally off the wall and wouldn't stop trying to convert me or make me believe in some very wrong and misogynistic things about the brand of Islam they converted to.

Sorry, sent that last before finishing my thought!

So just trying to say, differing views and beliefs aren't a reason to end a friendship. Pressure to convert or change your own views is.

Okay, so potential fobbing off lines include...

'I'm involved in mindfulness/meditation/talking therapy and I don't want to start with any other kind of remedies that might make me lose focus or interfere."

"I'm happy that you're finding these remedies/ideas enjoyable/useful"

"I've got so much research to read on other topics that I just don't have time for any more. Sorry. I have a huge backlog of reading."
"I've made a commitment this year to only read fiction."
"I'm trying not to focus on health issues right now as they can make me a little anxious."

If she's into her rituals, invent your own ritual that somehow means you can't read or discuss health based woo, or diet based woo, and she will probably respect the ritual.

Don't appreciate or read the books.
Say thanks but no thanks or I read that, it was bollocks. I am not really interested in this kind of book thanks.

Change topic.

Spend the time reading up on GMO instead

Oh and on the subject of the medical community making up data to sell vaccines, some of them do. Dr Andrew Wakefield for one. Which is why he was struck off. He wasn't anti-vaccine he was trying to sell a different vaccine and he is an utter utter shit for all the damage he caused.

Yanbu to end a friendship if they become overzealous, pushy and are trying to convert you to their newfound beliefs - unless it can be avoided in meetups without too much effort.

YWBU to end a friendship just based on different parenting views or opinions if its still enjoyable soialising with them as it doesnt change them as a person. Unless it was a gamehanger like they suddenly believe in murder or something i'd lose respect then.

Unfortunately, its not always that seperate is it? when someone really 'gets' into a new hobby/lifestyle/viewpoint it can fundamentally change the person theyve become/the person you made friends with and you may ending up drifting apart.

My friend got into Forever Living and was constantly trying to convince me it would cure my longterm illness, it just completely changed how she behaved and we fell out hey ho

I wouldn't choose someone who doesn't vaccinate as a friend, not because of the immunisation itself but because of the attendant stupidity and wilful ignorance that gives rise to such a decision.

I have a small smattering of friends who are ardent believers of homeopathy, which I also consider stupid but in a far less damaging way than non-immunisers so I can just about manage that.

I was good friends with a girl at uni who had very different beliefs than me. A few years later she started trying to push those beliefs on us. She lost touch with a few of us as, whilst we were happy to be friends whilst it was live and let live, we weren't happy when it was being rammed down our throats and she was trying to make us feel guilty for not doing as she did.

Fast forward a few more years and we are back in touch through mutual friends and she's back to being enjoyable company.

Yanbu. Tell her nicely to back off then withdraw if she doesn't.

I was always pro vaccination and my first dc i had vaccinated. However, when she got to 2 i noticed that she had quite a lot of difficulties and has since being diagnosed as autistic. I have now gone on to have dc2 and have had all her vaccinations except the MMR. In my sane rational head i know that it is silly and that it doesn't cause autism but i had a "normal" daughter before the MMR and now she has a life limiting illness and to be honest its so so painful. Thankfully my second dc seems to be developing "normally" if not slightly ahead of her peers and i will get her vaccinated once she is 2 1/2. Im not a silly person i have just completed a law degree so i should be able to rationalise it in my head but i can't. If one of my friends tried to convince me otherwise i would have to cut them loose as its a subject to close to my heart. You should just agree to disagree, u seem quite controlling. Iv learnt in life that most people don't agree on something, and thats ok!

I wouldn't lose a friend over this. You are both right. No medicine is perfectly safe and everyedici e has to meet a required risk benefit ratio.
The autism link has been roundly disproved though so she seems to be confused on this point.

you either agree to disagree, or stop being friends. simples

I can see where you're coming from, and I struggle with this kind of thing a bit too. Non-vaccinators annoy me, and I also find religion difficult as I really can't respect those kinds of non-evidence-based beliefs.

But I have mellowed a bit and realised you can respect the person and their feelings, even if not the beliefs themselves.

I've had a rough time recently, a traumatic incident and now a big break-up and have been lucky to have kind and supportive friends to talk to. Including my friend who is a Christian and my friend the non-vaccinator. They've been there for me and I value them so much. I have to admit I still can't get my head round certain beliefs but I don't think it does have to mean the end of a friendship. You can just kind of co-exist with that in your head, if that makes sense. In the end does it matter if you are sure you are right and they're not?

(Also remember with vaccination there are people who shouldn't be vaccinated. Someone's reason for not vaccinating might be flaky non-scientific woo, but it may also not be. Even if it is, they could still turn out to be right in their case. And even if it is, it's their right. I am worried about people not vaccinating but I'd be more worried if it was made compulsory.)

I would have absolutely no problem cutting a friend off like this. I have no time for selfish idiots like that. I've watched my child almost die of meningitis and its fucking awful. For someone to CHOOSE not to protect their child from something like that, well, I personally don't think they should be allowed to make decisions for their kids.

Just agree to disagree. Maybe your not that into the friendship. Which is perfectly acceptable. You dont need to enter into war & peace to justfy yourself.

I'm not being catty. It's just an observation.

You'll have to agree to disagree on this. I have strong views about vaccination and while I agree that as a parent, that it is your duty to research and make up your own mind about which vaccinations to give to your children (I, for instance, did not give DS the swine flu jab) - people not giving the MMR based on that report about its connections to autism really makes me feel, not angry, but frustrated.

However, it is important to bear in mind that no matter what our decisions are based on, we all do all that we can to do the best for our children.

My dd was born right in the middle of the mmr debate, before it had been disproved. She didn't have it but she did have the separate ones cost a bloody fortune though

Depending on your friendship you could have some interesting debates whereby you put forward your arguments and vice versa. You dont have to say nothing, unless either of you are incapable of tolerance or you know that you won't be able to agree to disagree. In which case I wouldn't find that trait attractive anyway.

Essentially, you just have differing views. She feels shot down by you and as a close friend, is trying to reach out to you about it.

I would just kindly say "look, I love and respect you but these books aren't my cup of tea. I'm glad you're enjoying them, but I just don't have time right now."

Then come back and listen to Doreen about GMOs.

She's right about GMOs. So YABU on that.