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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop talking to a friend over this bonkers situation?

125 replies

WombOfOnesOwn · 17/05/2016 17:11

This is a weird one, so bear with me, I'd rather lay it all out here than drip feed.

Last year, DH and I moved a long distance (we live in the US) and met up with a couple he'd known from his school days, since they were some of the only people we knew in the large general area where we moved to.

Shockingly (to me, at least, as I find it somewhat hard to find friends after graduating university), we got along very, very well -- excellent conversations, easy to talk to even though we didn't agree on everything. We had new friends, even though they lived a few hours away!

The couple in question had two DC's already, ages 5 and 4, very sweet young children. She wants to have many more children -- they are not religious, but they have a very out-there, self-sufficient, off-the-grid lifestyle: she trained as a midwife, though she's a SAHM now. They don't do a lot of traditional medicine stuff, and they make EVERYTHING themselves, from shoes to salt. A little strange, sure, but nothing that made me say anything more than "well, that's not how I would do it."

I suffered from infertility for a number of years, and I'm at that age where it seems like everyone around me is having babies, so when my new friend told me that she was pregnant again, I felt a mixture of envy and joy for her. She had suffered losses of her own: two stillbirths, both of girl children, and one of her sons was premature and had a traumatic birth and NICU stay.

She was hopeful and proud about her pregnancy, and two weeks later, a freaking miracle happened: I got a positive pregnancy test, too. We were going to have babies together, with due dates just 8 weeks apart! I couldn't have been more thrilled.

We met up a few times during pregnancy, though during the third trimester I was feeling way too out-of-sorts to make the three-hour drive.

This is probably time to mention: both my friend and I are fat women. It's relevant to the issue, trust me on this one.

You see, she was supposed to have her baby 8 weeks before me. I planned to go as doula support for her birth, but she went late, and I wasn't feeling as well as I had been.

Then, suddenly, it was my due date, and she still hadn't had her baby.

We were emailing a LOT during pregnancy, but I slowly started to realize as my due date drew nearer that it was likely she was experiencing pseudocyesis (false/"hysterical" pregnancy, though that term is messed up). She was doing an unassisted pregnancy and planned an unassisted birth, and was making excuses not to go in and see a doctor. She claimed she could hear a fetal heartbeat on fetoscope, but this is something many women with this condition can experience.

My baby is now nearly 12 weeks old. I haven't heard from my friend since he was 7 weeks old, when she was still sure she would give birth any day now (and had at that point claimed to be feeling labor symptoms for about 14 weeks). The last email she sent was about how her pregnancy and birth group had kicked her out, saying no one could be pregnant for that long and that she was either lying or delusional. She was incredibly angry about this and was looking for support.

I never emailed her back. I feel crushingly guilty about it, but I just...didn't know what to do. Her husband has been with her since they were both young teenagers and experienced the trauma of her stillbirths with her -- he is very deferent to her in all matters relating to birth and pregnancy, and won't force her to the hospital.

I feel actually kind of scared to write back, and especially scared about the potential of meeting up with them any time before this issue is 100% resolved and she is mentally well again. My concern is one that feels crazy to me, but also that I know is a thing that really happens: women with pseudocyesis, caught in a shame and mental illness spiral, and with family and friends all wondering where that baby is, can sometimes go crazy enough to kill a woman who is pregnant or has a new baby, then steal the baby (pregnant women are killed this way every year, at least in the US -- the woman with pseudocyesis usually cuts the baby out of the pregnant woman, as horrifying as that is).

I know it's likely that I'm being overprotective and that my friend is not likely to be a killer (I can barely even believe I'm saying she could be one!). But it wasn't likely that when she announced her pregnancy, she'd still be claiming to be pregnant a year later. I want to help her get well, but I want to protect myself and my infant son, too.

Now that I've written you a book, any advice? I'm at such a loss.

OP posts:
Blu · 17/05/2016 20:07

You got on with her, counted her as a friend. I see no harm in replying to her e mail about being kicked out of her group by saying 'this all sounds very painful and confusing for you, how are you? '. She can't come down the Internet and get your baby.

If she is ill, she can get better. Admittedly you can't, as has already been said, make her well, but you could be an email voice letting her know people care about her.

ClashCityRocker · 17/05/2016 20:14

I don't think this is something you can sort out; you shouldn't feel bad about that.

I think a checking in message would be appropriate, if you wish to, but you shouldn't feel obliged to do so.

bumbleymummy · 17/05/2016 20:16

blu 's response sounds good to me.

WellErrr · 17/05/2016 20:18

What a strange situation. Poor woman.

DinosaursRoar · 17/05/2016 20:22

gosh this is horrible for all concerned.

I would go with Blu's suggestion of a simple message, and to get your DH to contact hers with a "hope all is ok, here if you want to talk..." type message, not particularly probing or mentioning directly their baby is 5 months overdue.

BabyGanoush · 17/05/2016 21:33

I like Blu's response

Vixyboo · 18/05/2016 01:08

Any update?

This is so sad. Perhaps she was pregnant again and lost it and can't cope?

ItWasNeverASkirt · 18/05/2016 14:50

That poor family.

Don't feel you have to stay in touch if it's too weird, but bear in mind that the support and continued friendship could be helpful if you can manage it. Maybe just a brief email to the husband saying that you'd been worried about her last email and asking if they were ok?

crankyblob · 18/05/2016 15:20

Well the longest pregnancy on record was 375 days so I suppose it is possible but probably not!

Possibly her husband has already got her help or is he a head in sand type?
This is a very difficult situation all around but what is important at the moment is that you look after your own emotional wellbeing with a newborn. I would follow blues suggestion as it will just play on your mind otherwise.

Congratulations on your baby.

ScreenshottingIsNotJournalism · 18/05/2016 15:30

If a baby dies late in pregnancy, will it always eventually end in spontanious labour? or will it sometimes go on until induction?

Just me being curious rather than thinking it's the case for the OPs friend

shovetheholly · 18/05/2016 16:01

It depends how close you are.

If you would describe her as a close friend, I'd contact the husband and find out how things are, using the conversation to raise the concern. It's a disorder characterised by a lot of shame behaviours, so being as open as you can, and as non-judgmental might be helpful. I'd definitely offer to speak to her as well. I think sometimes getting someone's permission can be helpful, e.g. 'Do you mind if I talk to you about something very personal? Would that be OK?' Then deal with the anger 'I know it made you very angry when that group behaved the way that they did. I can really understand that it was devastating for you. But I am a bit worried about you....' etc.

I think she already knows something is wrong - the fact that she's avoiding doctors even more deliberately than usual is a good sign.

TheWindInThePillows · 18/05/2016 16:01

I don't think you know this woman very well at all. You met a year or so ago, then met a couple of times in your pregnancy and have been emailing a lot, but you don't really know her that well, except to know they do have some different beliefs and live off grid.

I would personally let sleeping dogs lie. You have a new little baby, that's what she desperately wants and has issues with, I think I would just leave them to it.

I have stuck with many a good friend with mental health issues, however I know when stuff is out of my remit, and this would be out of it- plus it is not like you have a very longstanding friendship which isn't all about babies. It sounds to me like the baby thing happened very soon in, you've been bonding over that but basically it's a made up thing and you would probably be better extricating yourself at this stage.

I know this goes against much of the advice given that she needs a friend etc, but I think proceeding with friendships is like relationships, you need to dip your toe in the water and see if it works for both of you and if not move on. I have a horrible feeling that she doesn't want a true friendship, she wants you to back and validate her (quite different and probably challenging to your worldview) choices, and is getting cross and angry with people that don't fit with that. That could be you next and personally I'd move on, or at least, take it down to Christmas card level.

It's sad, but sometimes friendships don't work out just as relationships don't work out, I wouldn't contact or force this one when you are the one with the babe in arms.

FishWithABicycle · 18/05/2016 16:10

It is possible for a foetus to die during pregnancy and never be actually miscarried - the body eventually calcifies (gets covered with a bone-like material) and can stay within the woman for the rest of her life (google Lithopedion) if not extracted by medical assistance.

Whether it's this, or a hysterical/fantasy pregnancy, or she's in denial about a miscarriage, or mistook symptoms of an abdominal tumour for pregnancy and is in fact very ill - none of these are IMO reasons to withdraw your friendship. You can't fix her, but it doesn't hurt you to listen to her and let her know you think of her and wish her well.

thewisestfallobscenely · 18/05/2016 16:13

I'd reply acknowledging how difficult it must be for her and suggesting that she seek medical help despite her reservations because a normal pregnancy does not last this long.

I'd probably avoid mentioning pseudocyesis specifically in case she reacts badly and ends up with even fewer people to turn to for support (although you are not in any way obliged to provide it and your first priority must be your own health and that of your baby). I also think she might be more likely to consider seeing a doctor if it is suggested as a physical, rather than mental, problem.

It's a good idea for your husband to speak to hers, I think, but maybe not only that because she might feel even more lonely and paranoid that everyone's 'informing' on her or somehow conspiring against her rather than seeing that you're doing what you reasonably can to help.

Pjsofpurple · 18/05/2016 17:11

I would say you or your DH should contact her husband, he is probably in need of a friend too.

When I was still a baby my dad was diagnosed with schizophrenia. My mum had seen his behavior deteriorate over time but she was - in her own words- "sucked into the crazy". It was only the presence of a baby that made my mum react and seek help, and when my dad refused help, she got out of the marriage. She needed a lot of support afterwards, it was not an easy situation to live through.

So her husband might very well be in need of a friend, especially because there are two children in the mix.

Congratulations on your baby Smile

Palpatine · 18/05/2016 17:47

I would drop her a casual friendly email like "Sorry, I haven't been touch. How are you?" and then take it from there.

MooPointCowsOpinion · 18/05/2016 17:50

Another vote for a breezy 'how's things' email, to keep lines of communication open, in case she wants to reach out later.

Pettywoman · 18/05/2016 18:43

Do they have any health insurance seeing as they prefer the alternative thing? Does this make it harder to go for support even if someone succeeds in persuading them to get a check up? Does Obama care cover this stuff?

I agree a how's things from you and the same between the DHs would keep communication open without judgement or getting too close.

Congratulations on your baby.

Fettypop · 18/05/2016 18:46

This reply has been deleted

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Ladyrattlesuk · 18/05/2016 18:49

I'm a mum of 3 teens in my mid forties. A few years ago I had a surprise pregnancy. During my pregnancy the feotus sadly died but my body thought I was still pregnant & we didn't find out until my 20 week scan. At the scan they thought I must have got my dates wrong and said I must only be a few weeks pregnant as the embryo they could see was tiny and there was no heartbeat yet. Several weeks later I was still getting positive pregnancy tests and feeling sick but the embryo still hadnt grown. I often wonder how common it is. Maybe your friend really was pregnant? Maybe as the due date rolled by she was too scared to go and get scanned after her previous losses? It could have been a physical pregnancy & not just a mental thing? I personally would drop her an email saying "how are things? Sorry I've not got back to you" but don't mention her pregnancy and keep your baby news short. She might find it awkward that you had a successful pregnancy and she didn't. Mental or physical, she would know by now there was no baby. Either way she could use a friend. Btw: Congrats on your joyous arrival!!!

mawbroon · 18/05/2016 18:49

I've had acute psychosis twice and both times I was utterly convinced I was pregnant.

The paranoid delusions meant that living off the grid was extremely appealing. Luckily my DH saw that I was ill and got the help I needed rather than go along with my crazy ideas and as the medication kicked in, I realised that none of it made any sense whatsoever. I dread to think what would have happened had he agreed to go along with my ideas though.

What prompted them to go off grid? I wonder if she's been mentally ill previously and they disappeared rather than seek medical help.

Are they religious? Could their actions be "messages from God"? I am 100% atheist but was utterly convinced that God was speaking to me.

It's a difficult situation all round OP Sad

witsender · 18/05/2016 19:06

I wouldn't end a friendship over this, she needs help and support. There is little you can do, but I don't know why you would cut her off? I would email back asking how she is.

springydaffs · 18/05/2016 19:08

You have to bear in mind you've just had a baby. That makes you vulnerable and hardly in a position to assist someone who is up to her neck in some kind of psychosis.

I think it's entirely appropriate for your DH to talk to her DH. They are old friends and this is serious. They're off grid and can forge their own reality (clearly Sad).

If it was just the two of them that would be one thing - but there are two kids caught up in all this. It's too awful. Those kids need protecting. Let your DH take over from here.

IceMaiden73 · 18/05/2016 19:08

I think I would just drop her and email and ask how she is x

IrenetheQuaint · 18/05/2016 19:19

I'd never heard of lithopedion before Shock

Whatever the real situation, your poor friend sounds like she needs some help, and getting your DH to talk to hers definitely sounds like the best plan.