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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop talking to a friend over this bonkers situation?

125 replies

WombOfOnesOwn · 17/05/2016 17:11

This is a weird one, so bear with me, I'd rather lay it all out here than drip feed.

Last year, DH and I moved a long distance (we live in the US) and met up with a couple he'd known from his school days, since they were some of the only people we knew in the large general area where we moved to.

Shockingly (to me, at least, as I find it somewhat hard to find friends after graduating university), we got along very, very well -- excellent conversations, easy to talk to even though we didn't agree on everything. We had new friends, even though they lived a few hours away!

The couple in question had two DC's already, ages 5 and 4, very sweet young children. She wants to have many more children -- they are not religious, but they have a very out-there, self-sufficient, off-the-grid lifestyle: she trained as a midwife, though she's a SAHM now. They don't do a lot of traditional medicine stuff, and they make EVERYTHING themselves, from shoes to salt. A little strange, sure, but nothing that made me say anything more than "well, that's not how I would do it."

I suffered from infertility for a number of years, and I'm at that age where it seems like everyone around me is having babies, so when my new friend told me that she was pregnant again, I felt a mixture of envy and joy for her. She had suffered losses of her own: two stillbirths, both of girl children, and one of her sons was premature and had a traumatic birth and NICU stay.

She was hopeful and proud about her pregnancy, and two weeks later, a freaking miracle happened: I got a positive pregnancy test, too. We were going to have babies together, with due dates just 8 weeks apart! I couldn't have been more thrilled.

We met up a few times during pregnancy, though during the third trimester I was feeling way too out-of-sorts to make the three-hour drive.

This is probably time to mention: both my friend and I are fat women. It's relevant to the issue, trust me on this one.

You see, she was supposed to have her baby 8 weeks before me. I planned to go as doula support for her birth, but she went late, and I wasn't feeling as well as I had been.

Then, suddenly, it was my due date, and she still hadn't had her baby.

We were emailing a LOT during pregnancy, but I slowly started to realize as my due date drew nearer that it was likely she was experiencing pseudocyesis (false/"hysterical" pregnancy, though that term is messed up). She was doing an unassisted pregnancy and planned an unassisted birth, and was making excuses not to go in and see a doctor. She claimed she could hear a fetal heartbeat on fetoscope, but this is something many women with this condition can experience.

My baby is now nearly 12 weeks old. I haven't heard from my friend since he was 7 weeks old, when she was still sure she would give birth any day now (and had at that point claimed to be feeling labor symptoms for about 14 weeks). The last email she sent was about how her pregnancy and birth group had kicked her out, saying no one could be pregnant for that long and that she was either lying or delusional. She was incredibly angry about this and was looking for support.

I never emailed her back. I feel crushingly guilty about it, but I just...didn't know what to do. Her husband has been with her since they were both young teenagers and experienced the trauma of her stillbirths with her -- he is very deferent to her in all matters relating to birth and pregnancy, and won't force her to the hospital.

I feel actually kind of scared to write back, and especially scared about the potential of meeting up with them any time before this issue is 100% resolved and she is mentally well again. My concern is one that feels crazy to me, but also that I know is a thing that really happens: women with pseudocyesis, caught in a shame and mental illness spiral, and with family and friends all wondering where that baby is, can sometimes go crazy enough to kill a woman who is pregnant or has a new baby, then steal the baby (pregnant women are killed this way every year, at least in the US -- the woman with pseudocyesis usually cuts the baby out of the pregnant woman, as horrifying as that is).

I know it's likely that I'm being overprotective and that my friend is not likely to be a killer (I can barely even believe I'm saying she could be one!). But it wasn't likely that when she announced her pregnancy, she'd still be claiming to be pregnant a year later. I want to help her get well, but I want to protect myself and my infant son, too.

Now that I've written you a book, any advice? I'm at such a loss.

OP posts:
steff13 · 17/05/2016 18:01

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear but my view is that if you want to talk to her about her health, you must talk/email HER and not her husband.

If the friend is convinced that she is pregnant, what good would it do for the OP to address it to her? If she's had some sort of break with reality, it's unlikely she would seek help on her own, regardless of what the OP says.

Ditsy4 · 17/05/2016 18:02

Why not send her a home made card with a brief message.
" Just a little note to say ...I'm thinking of you. " She will appreciate it all the more if she thinks you made it for her.

Perhaps she was pregnant and miscarried. The mind can play serious tricks on pregnant woman.

Get your husband to phone and just ask how everyone is. Then let the other hubby lead the conversation.

WombOfOnesOwn · 17/05/2016 18:03

I'd happily send a woman friend instead of her DH if she had anyone else to talk to, but her last few emails to me seem so irrational that I think I'd have about as much luck trying to convince, say, an untreated paranoid schizophrenic that people really weren't trying to come after them. I'm very much NOT about "deferring to men," but I feel like my intervention is less likely to help -- the one person she trusts entirely is her husband, and I worry I'll be simply dismissed as a shill for the medical establishment (which I'm very far from).

Leeds, she is already a very large woman, I don't believe she's put any weight on, but when you're a very large woman you don't necessarily (as a fat woman myself, no one ever asked me if I was pregnant, not even when I was 40 weeks and waddling up a storm!). She has definitely talked to her husband about the pregnancy. They've built a custom crib for the baby, she's knitted it a whole wardrobe, her two DCs are eager to meet their new sibling, which is a whole other level of heartbreaking.

OP posts:
steff13 · 17/05/2016 18:05

I also find the claim that pregnant women are killed this way every year vastly unbelievable.

Fetal abduction is exceedingly rare, but there have been 14 cases in the US in the last 10 years.

blueskyinmarch · 17/05/2016 18:07

How about you send her a low key e mail? A sort of "hey, how are you doing, haven’t heard from you in a while?” sort of message. Don’t mention babies, just see how she responds and take it from there.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 17/05/2016 18:09

I don't understand why you feel defeated by this. I can see how you might feel a little sad that you think you have lost a new friend but really, this isn't about you. Focus on your lovely new baby. Take a step back from it all and let your DH help his friends to access the support they need.

Alisvolatpropiis · 17/05/2016 18:12

Understand completely why you're at a bit of a loss here.

TrillKitten · 17/05/2016 18:13

"her two DCs are eager to meet their new sibling"

This is all awful but that just broke my heart. :'(

I have no advice that isn't above. Im sorry this is taking time and energy away from your DC. You're a good friend for sticking by her in the ways you can / feel safe doing just now, I don't blame you if you have to cut off contact though. It's really tough either way FlowersBrewCake

ScreenshottingIsNotJournalism · 17/05/2016 18:15

YANBU to stay away until you know what you would be walking into

YABU if you don't reply AT ALL. Reply something even if it's "sorry, I'm being really shit with emails at the moment with the tiredness, I will get back to everyone properly soon just wanted you all to know I haven't forgotten you" or something like that

But I really want to believe a less dramatic possibility: for example, she got pregnant, you got pregnant, she lost the pregnancy soon after you got pregnant. I hurt too much so she didn't tell anyone, she got pregnant again next cycle so just continued as if it was all the same pregnancy instead of opening up about yet another loss???

I don't think that in this instance it would be disrespectful to go straight to the DH, not least because he is your friend too and with this happpening to his wife he's going to need support but how can he ask for it without betraying her? Get your OH to go see him, ask him how he is, just give him a chance to tell your OH if he needs to, it doesn't have to be an order like "take your wife to a doctor" - just be a friend and give him an opportunity to tell your OH what's going on if he needs to

WombOfOnesOwn · 17/05/2016 18:16

I think it's because I moved out here without a lot of friend support -- and for various medical reasons, my family isn't able to be here to support me either through this time. It's me, the DH, and my in-laws (who are lovely people in many ways, but aren't people I'd necessarily have chosen, and they are much more support for DH than for me). I'd have loved to have had a friend with similar age babies so we could have offered mutual support and reassurance, since I know she and her DH are in very similar situation (not much family, no friends nearby).

I'm no longer sure I can help my friend. There are some things that are outside the purview of friendship, and I feel like this is right on the border line. It'd be nice to help her, but I mostly feel she will be angry and upset if I do anything but support the idea that you can have a "cryptic pregnancy" lasting years. There are online support groups for these "cryptic pregnancies" that I think are helping her to string her own self along, getting her hopes up, and I feel like telling her "these people aren't your friends, they're telling you what you want to hear so you can reinforce each other's delusions" is waaaay outside the scope of our friendship.

OP posts:
WombOfOnesOwn · 17/05/2016 18:18

"But I really want to believe a less dramatic possibility: for example, she got pregnant, you got pregnant, she lost the pregnancy soon after you got pregnant. I hurt too much so she didn't tell anyone, she got pregnant again next cycle so just continued as if it was all the same pregnancy instead of opening up about yet another loss???"

God, I've hoped this is what it is. I would LOVE to open my email inbox one of these days to see a picture of a squalling little newborn from her! The reason I've waited so long to post this is that I kept holding out hope this would happen. But if it gives you any idea, her original due date was December 15th. So we're talking about a pretty long delay by now, not just a cycle or two.

OP posts:
ScreenshottingIsNotJournalism · 17/05/2016 18:20

I'm well impressed that you recognise this at this stage:

I'm no longer sure I can help my friend. There are some things that are outside the purview of friendship, and I feel like this is right on the border line

It's something I usually only recognise in retrospect Hmm

MiddleClassProblem · 17/05/2016 18:21

But you haven't spoken to her in weeks so don't actually now if it's still going on. So just check in.

The way she reacted to rejection from the ante/post natal group suggests she won't listen to others but DH should be the person closest to her so might be different from him. It's not about him being a man. It's about him being her best friend.

ScreenshottingIsNotJournalism · 17/05/2016 18:21

But if it gives you any idea, her original due date was December 15th. So we're talking about a pretty long delay by now, not just a cycle or two

I believed you don't worry, I was just saying I don't want to believe you Sad

KayTee87 · 17/05/2016 18:27

Poor poor woman Sad she must be so lost and confused. I think you should send a quick email checking in with her and just see what she says before doing anything else. I don't think there would be anything wrong with your husband asking after the health of his friends wife either to get an idea of what's going on.
Congratulations on your baby and sorry you don't have a big support network around you, I hope you find some mother & baby classes with a nice group of women.

amarmai · 17/05/2016 18:27

You and dh have a new baby to care for ,Plus they are 3 hours drive distant,so it does not sound likely that you or your dh can be involved . As she needs professional help, it is better for all concerned to be safe and stay clear.

nobilityobliges · 17/05/2016 18:28

I agree you should probably not approach her by saying "btw you're def not pregnant and if you think you are it's because of a mental health problem I found out about on google." However, you could email her and say that you hope she's well and you're thinking of her.

And I don't really understand why you think that getting your husband to talk to hers is going to help - I am sure he is much more well-appraised of the situation than you are. I also think that if you have comments to make about a friend's health you need to make them to the friend in the first instance. To do otherwise is just disrespectful imo. If you can't bring yourself to raise it with your friend, I'm not sure why it's appropriate to raise it with her husband.

TheHobbitMum · 17/05/2016 18:29

I've no advice other than maybe send a friendly email to her letting her know your thinking of her etc Don't mention the pregnancy/baby and keep the tone light?

Congratulations on your baby though!

TiredOfSleep · 17/05/2016 18:35

Would you consider sending a sorry for your loss type message? So no implication that she's been lying? Not sure if that would be the best route but worth a consideration?

Cagliostro · 17/05/2016 18:37

:( no idea what to suggest, what a horrible situation :(

littleprincesssara · 17/05/2016 18:38

If it makes you feel any better, murder/kidnap due to pseudocyesis is exceptionally rare. In the past 30 years there have been fewer than half a dozen cases (there was one very famous case in Kansas that's inspired about a million TV shows and movies, which probably gives the impression it's more common than it is). Most professionals dismiss the theory that there is any link between pseudocyesis and violent behaviour. Even the famous Kansas case, there's a lot of scepticism over the "pseudocyesis defence."

A woman with pseudocyesis is unlikely to kidnap a baby, since the key part of the condition is a genuine belief they are pregnant - if you really believe you're about to give birth, you wouldn't 'need' to kidnap someone else's baby. It sounds horrific, but generally in cases where a woman is killed and the baby kidnapped, it's part of organised crime.

HappyNevertheless · 17/05/2016 18:39

Support doesn't mean addressing her problems, nor does it mean telling her she is right in believing she is pregnant.
It can be as simple as listening to her wo any judgement.

The problem here is that you were hoping for a mummy friend and she won't be able to be that.

ScreenshottingIsNotJournalism · 17/05/2016 18:39

If you can't bring yourself to raise it with your friend, I'm not sure why it's appropriate to raise it with her husband

Because he's their friend too
Because this is affecting him an his children, it's not just happening to her.
Because he might be stuck not knowing if he can reach out to anyone without being disloyal to his wife, so if someone comes to him and quietly says "is everything really alright?" that might actually be what everyone needs right now?

LunaLoveg00d · 17/05/2016 18:46

Would you consider sending a sorry for your loss type message? So no implication that she's been lying? Not sure if that would be the best route but worth a consideration?

My gut feeling is that this would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. If the woman really is delusional and believes that she is pregnant, sending that card would be hugely distressing - her pregnancy is just as real to her as any other pregnancy would be and imagine how you'd feel if you were pregnant with a healthy baby and someone sent you a sympathy card? You'd be horrified and devastated.

Definitely going through the husband is the best route. No beating about the bush either, he needs to hear how worried you are about her and indeed the whole family.

Good luck - very tough situation.

steff13 · 17/05/2016 18:47

Her husband may be at a loss as to how to help her, and would appreciate some support from a friend.

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