Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.

Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.

There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

Mango you are essentially saying a disabled persons life is worth less than that of an able bodied person.

Christina, well this was NI, where abortion is illegal anyway at that stage. I can't see why a woman would be given a jail sentence for an early abortion elsewhere in the UK given that it's legal. My point was just that I think the gestation of the pregnancy does seem to make a difference to the sentence given so it's not just about whether or not she broke the law.

I don't read what mango said that way, she was just being brutally honest and saying she would abort (in theory)if that scenario arose. But its a fucking brutal topic regardless.

I think we are also forgetting the medical staff here.

It fascinates me that people are saying that the rights of the mother override (a) those of a viable foetus and (b) the medical staff (who have a mission to SAVE lives) being enforced to terminate the life of a potentially viable foetus.

What about them in all of this? If you are terminating a baby that will have a short and painful life I can see a rationale. But to abort a 30 week foetus with Downs, nah. no way could I/would I

I know this is triggering question but for all the people who are so vehemently PRO late abortion, do you think that medical staff should be forced to do this??

That's the point. Ending a pregnancy shouldn't be a legal matter. It's a medical one. Is it really acceptable that that woman now has a criminal record and a suspended sentence?

I'm sure that there are lots of early self-induced abortions in the UK as there always have been. The majority of women will be able to keep this private of course, as their pregnancy won't be obvious and the products of pregnancy less. The RCM and BPAS are saying that this should be a matter between a woman and HCPs, not the criminal justice system.

Stop I think she was being brutally honest too. But unpicking those attitudes, it ultimately comes down to disabled people being seen as the defective option compared to a non disabled individual

I am not 'vehemently PRO late abortion'. Rather, I am pro the decriminalisation of all abortion at whatever stage of pregnancy.

But I will answer your question. No, I do not think medical staff should be 'forced' to perform abortions if they are morally or ethically opposed to them. This is the situation in the UK today.

However, one of the reasons that some medical staff won't perform later term abortions at the moment is the fear of prosecution (see Joanne Jepson case).

Imperfect access to abortion care is one of the reasons that women request late term abortions ie they haven't been able to get an earlier appointment. Better abortion care and access to abortions all round would reduce this.

No-one on this thread (or any of the 1000s of threads on the same subject) is 'Pro late abortion' Christina. It's nothing but hyperbole designed to stifle debate.

I think some things are illegal because doing them is hugely damaging to ourselves. Imo this includes self abortions. So yes this should remain illegal, it is then down to the cps to decide if prosecution is in the public interest. Generally that would be not at all for terrified rape victims, but with scope to punish men for abuse if they force women to self abort or anyone who carries out a home abortion on another individual. If you remove all criminality from the issue you can't punish those crimes. If the cps has made bad decisions to prosecute in the cases mentioned, this should be dealt with, not the whole law changed.

Christina, well we can agree to disagree on that because I don't think of it as 'just' a medical procedure.

No, LtEve, I don't think it is. It's just a shorthand way of saying that people support the idea that women should be able to have late term abortions.

Google search abortion survivors. Real eye opener.
Some babies resilience is amazing.
I think abortion especially at a late stage, for any reason other than medical is pure evil and 100%selfish.

I do Bumbley. The same way you objected to being called a 'Forced Birther' on a previous thread. But if you think that's ok now, well...

I explained why 'forced birther' doesn't make sense. In the context I've seen 'pro-late term abortion' on this thread, it isn't being used as an insult or to try to stifle debate - it's just referring to the group of people on this thread who support the idea of late abortion.

Even if you have a late abortion you still have to give birth. Forced birther does not make sense.

Anyone that is anti-abortion is forcing women to give birth. Hence Forced Birther. Makes perfect sense to me.

I've been looking for the thread where many posters have had trouble accessing timely abortions in the UK (excluding Northern Ireland) christina, but I can't find it. Were you on it, roughly when was it? I would be interested to read.

That's fine chanice. Honestly. I completely support your right to make decisions about your own pregnancy.

If you think abortion at a late stage is 'pure evil' then fine, don't have one. Ever. Up to you.

Those of us in favour of decriminalisation abortion would like the right to make personal choices extended to all women in whatever stage of pregnancy.

bibbity - there have been a few recently, but I think it's this one -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2567599-Guest-post-Abortion-must-be-decriminalised

Mango you are essentially saying a disabled persons life is worth less than that of an able bodied person.

No.

What I said was that if on the scan my foetus was found to have deformities/disabilities/Downs Syndrome then I would not have continued with the pregnancy.

The moment the baby was born it became my baby, my child.
Had deformities etc been noticed at that point then so be it.

If later in life something happens to my children which leaves them mentally or physically impaired, then so be it.

From the moment they're born they're equal in value as a life to everyone else.

Prior to birth they are a foetus, and yes - being brutally honest I would terminate a foetus that was found to have those conditions.

Bibbity, if you find it on that thread could you let me now where please? I can't search threads on my phone 😕

Know*

Mango however you dress it, the fact is to you, an able bodied foetus is worth more to you than a disabled one.

Yes, an able bodied foetus.

An able bodied person, no.

I'll be perfectly honest, if I found out at a scan that the foetus had downs syndrome, I'd abort.

I couldn't go through giving birth to a baby I knew i wouldn't keep, and I don't feel equipped as a person to give that child the extra care they need.

If that makes me selfish, so be it. If it offends people, that's their prerogative. I am not going to sacrifice my mental and physical health and continue with a pregnancy, just to spare your feelings.

I fear people are conflating the forced birthers with people who feel for whatever reason they would be unable to have a later abortion themselves. The forced birther label is generally attached to those women who feel that other women should never be allowed to have an abortion for reasons other than what they deem acceptable. They apply this to women carrying foetuses at any stage of gestation.

The reason they are unable to discuss abortion without constantly making it about late term abortion is because they want to force women to carry foetuses to term, regardless of the woman's circumstances but know that most rational people understand that banning abortion wholesale would be ridiculous and draconian. They therefore have to obfuscate their wish to ban abortion behind an erroneous argument of slippery slopes and thin edges of wedges. It's always the same people, and they always raise the point because they know that if they debated the issue at hand, they'd lose.

I agree that there is a distinction between your stance and being "PRO late abortion". I appreciate you are not stood outside maternity units waving placards saying "KILL YOUR FOETUS - OPRESSED SISTERS" as you get such a kick out of late abortions

However, I raise you
Anyone that is anti-abortion is forcing women to give birth. Hence Forced Birther. Makes perfect sense to me

to call people that have ethical objections to late terminations "forced birthers|" and PRO life is ridiculous. There are many reasonable people who are pro abortion, and anti late abortion and they should be allowed this opinion

this is a "only on MN" conversation, as the majority of the population oppose late abortions I think this debate is futile, its not going to happen thanks to god