Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.




Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.




There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I totally agree with the RCM.

Canada's system is good - abortion has been removed from criminal law statutes completely, and is entirely a matter between the woman and her doctor.

I would like to see that happen here.

[ghostyslovesheep]

well it's the ONLY procedure you need TWO DR's permission for - so not that easy - then long wait or expensive ...

[OurBlanche]

Not really Kate

You are making the same fallacious connection the 'meeja' is.

One woman's decision does not become every woman's decision. As stats from Australia etc have clearly shown.

And yes, the whole point of the RCM statement is the criminalisation of the woman. That is what they seek to prevent.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

In theory ghosty but in practice it is very quickly dealt with indeed.

Doctors recognise there is a time limit with terminations and crudely aim for the cheaper option, those first 12 weeks are undoubtedly the 'cheapest' in monetary terms but it is up to 6 or possibly 7 weeks one can take a pill, then I think 10 weeks for a surgical non anaesthetic then 14 weeks for anaesthetic? After that, I think, it tends to be a lot more unpleasant, and so you are dealt with quickly - too quickly, I think the commonest misconception at Marie stopes and their elk is that you get free impartial counselling - you don't!

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

I don't think I am really, Blanche.

I understand the arguments for decriminalisation of abortion at any stage, but I just personally disagree. That doesn't mean I think a custodial sentence is necessarily the answer, and it doesn't mean I am anti-abortion.

[OurBlanche]

I understand the arguments for decriminalisation of abortion at any stage I think that is the bit we are at loggerheads over, Kate

I would just say "decriminalisation of abortion* I wouldn't make it synonymous with the "at any stage"

[ghostyslovesheep]

well they tended to when I took clients there when working for a rape charity - maybe things have changed but I am fairly sure anyone offering counselling has to abide by set standards

I am sure they are still way more impartial than Life ever where

[PalmerViolet]

I fully support the BPAS and RCM on this.

I believe abortions should be as early as possible and as late as necessary.

I trust women to know what to do with their bodies.

[EveryoneElsie]

Did you know some diseases are gender specific?

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

I do understand the arguments for it Blanche, it's just not something I can agree with, I'm afraid.

Ghosty I've never had any dealings with Life so I can't comment on that. I do think abortion is 'best done quickly' to paraphrase Macbeth and it's also unfair to women who have definitely made up their minds to terminate to force them through counselling. However, I think some women who are undecided do turn up and it is assumed they wish to terminate, when this may not be the case.

[houseeveryweekend]

I think its horrific to think that any woman should be forced to have a baby they dont want to have. Yes even if they dont want it because of its gender. To work on the gender issues you need to tackle the cultural problems that put pressure on women to have babies of certain genders not force women to have babies they dont want or will be beaten for having.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

You see, my worry would be more that the act of abortion at that late stage would be so utterly harrowing it would leave some very deep seated mental scars on a woman already possibly quite vulnerable.

I can just imagine a frightened young girl gratefully having an 'abortion' not realising she in fact has to give birth, and for this to haunt her for years later.

[OurBlanche]

Sorry Kate but I now have no idea what it is you disagree with.

Late abortion?

Women being decriminalised for wanting to abort an unwanted child?

Both?

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

I disagree with late abortion, blanche, although I would be willing to concede some flexibility - hypothetically a woman who is obviously desperate and (say) 25 weeks, possibly ...

Decriminalisation is difficult, as I just don't think in these cases a custodial sentence is the answer, or any punishment really! But then it sort of makes a bit of a mockery of the law I suppose,Mif we are to say 'well it's illegal but there's no sanction for doing it.'

I don't know :) But then this is why I am neither in medicine or politics.

I would as I've said be very genuinely worried that an abortion at such a stage would be hugely detrimental to a woman's mental health and the fact is I imagine if she hasn't already requested a termination there must be a reason for this, and this reason is likely to be traumatic and linked to mental health, chaotic life, being very young - it's not hard to imagine a fifteen year old girl undergoing this experience and being forever changed by it, especially if she goes on to have a family at a later date. Of course I concede any decision at this stage has a lasting impact.

I guess the answer like always is prevention is better than cure, the earlier the better - but I know that's not always the answer.

I'm glad I'm not in charge :)

[RedToothBrush]

If a woman, wants and asks for a late term abortion, it is because she needs some kind of help.

Decriminalising it, opens the door for that help as it means women can ask.

Whether they see it through might be an entirely different thing.

My suspicion is that, you'll find women in this situation, either with particular mental health needs that need proper support or are in a relationship which is potentially abusive and they feel unable to leave that situation.

In these cases, if these women are desperate to have a late abortion, then they attempt to do it themselves rather than seek medical help.

If they have access to medical help, they may well abort. However with the correct support they may be able to continue the pregnancy and resolve their issues in other ways without endangering their lives.

Its therefore NOT actually about abortions, but instead a way of getting help to particularly vulnerable women who might not otherwise seek that help.

[PalmerViolet]

I think Kate, in all those scenarios you've come up with, and they are all plausible, the greater damage to the woman in question's mental health would be to be forced to carry to term and then birth the foetus they are so desperate to abort earlier on.

I do get where you're coming from on this. It is not a choice I would imagine anyone would find easy, but I think we have to trust women to have choices over their bodies. Often, having the choice is all that's needed for a person to come to terms with their situation.

[BoatyMcBoat]

I support the RCM and BPAS.

[AHellOfABird]

I support the RCM and BPAS.

Very few referrals are late term and those that are have been largely for reasons harrowing in their own right, Kate, such as fear to tell parents. I will find the report...

[AHellOfABird]

www.bpas.org/media/1181/32-reasons-not-to-lower-the-abortion-time-limit-briefing.doc

[twelly]

The leader of the rcn appears to have taken this stance while many members disagree. I think that the suggestion that abortion should be extended appalling.

[WhoDrewOnTheWall]

I support the RCM and BPAS.

The decision to abort should rest with the woman, it is no one else's business, and she should be able to obtain the appropriate medical support needed without being criminalised.

[MadameJosephine]

I believe abortions should be as early as possible and as late as necessary.

I trust women to know what to do with their bodies.

I am a member of the RCM and support them 100%

[madamginger]

The 2 doctors thing is shit, it's like saying we don't trust you to make your own medical decisions.
Abortion should be as early as possible and as late as necessary.
Saying that though when I had mine -via Marie stopes- I only really saw 1 doctor, she did the dating scan to confirm the pregnancy and said are you sure, I said yes and the second doctor was the one who did the procedure, he again said are you sure and that was that, no counselling or anything. I spent about 5 minutes with the first doctor in total.

[JasperDamerel]

I also support them.

[HamaTime]

I support the RCM. I support women, all of them, not all except the 27-40 weeks pregnant ones.
There is no evidence that it will increase the number of abortions but it may go some way to saying women are human too and their bodies belong to them.