Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.




Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.




There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

It's still her choice, gonetoseeaman. Always her choice whether to bring a child with Downs into the world, or not. If you're pro-life, you won't agree with it at any stage - most cases of Downs are picked up at early stages, within the first 22 weeks.

[bumbleymummy]

This is the thread I mentioned earlier about 'incompatible with life'. Here

[BombadierFritz]

The unspoken here is that it is not just a womans bodily autonomy - it is her right to bring life into the world (or not) that we are discussing wrt up to term abortions. If it were about bodily autonomy, it would be acceptable to 'pro-choice up to term' campaigners for pregnancy to end without prior death of fetus

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I agree with the posters on that thread that said 'the condition, not the child, is being described as incompatible with life'.

I know that particular poster's sad, sad story - and I feel equally strongly that she should have the choice to continue the pregnancy (as she did), as I do that women should have the choice to end the pregnancy.

[christinarossetti]

lass I have explained that several times upthread.

[bumbleymummy]

Under, how can a condition be 'incompatible with life' when people are living with it?

[christinarossetti]

I absolutely agree that the poster in the thread should have had the right (which she did) to make her own choices about her own pregnancy.

Absolutely. My argument is that all pregnant women should have this right without fear of prosecution (the actual topic of this thread).

[bumbleymummy]

I linked to the thread to show opinions on the term 'incompatible with life' and how a parent with a child with t18 (which is often described as such) feels about its use. It has nothing to do with the choices she made as I think you are well aware Christina.

The topic includes the discussion of the consequences of changing that law, as has been pointed out to you several times. It's not as straightforward as you keep trying to make out.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Absolutely. My argument is that all pregnant women should have this right without fear of prosecution (the actual topic of this thread).

Agree, christina. The RCM has been very clear that it is not 'for' or 'against' abortion - but that it should be decriminalised. I support this.

It's totally straightforward - case by case decisions between the woman and her doctor(s). Unless you think that there are heavily pregnant women of healthy body and mind queuing up for late term abortions, and doctors queuing up eagerly to perform them - then you'll see the RCM proposals for what they are.

[bumbleymummy]

There don't have to be queues of people for late term abortion for people to object to making it permissible.

I don't think anyone has suggested that the RCM are 'for' or against 'abortion' just that the decision to decriminalise abortion could have further reaching consequences that they don't agree with.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Btw bumbley - I think it was very wrong of you to link someone else's thread onto this one. There was a very sad ending to that story, and I don't think it's your place to link it to a general discussion thread. You could make your point quite easily without linking to someone's personal story. The poster in question may not mind, but it could cause great upset to her if she came across this.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Well, I believe it's not for other people to agree or disagree with - I believe it is a decision between a woman and her doctor(s). The medical profession will still have regulations, just not be governed by criminal law.

[bumbleymummy]

I've messaged the OP of that thread and if she is in any way upset or offended by my linking to her thread then I will report my post to MNHQ and have it removed.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Well, you shouldn't have done it in the first place IMO - it's not your story to share, or use in a discussion, and there is a photo of her baby on there.

[AgathaMystery]

This has all got really Daily Mail

Abortion should not be a crime. Not ever. Not when you are 6 weeks or 36 weeks pregnant. We are not talking about a radical change in the law but decriminalising Abortion.

And we all know we are talking about NI.

A woman has just narrowly escaped a custodial sentence for buying her own abortion drugs. . She did it alone at home. She could have died, just because of her postcode.

A pro life group are appealing the decision. They want this woman in prison. So why can't we support our sisters over the water, & Cathy Warwick?

[bumbleymummy]

Agatha, why do you think it would be extended to NI when the current law doesn't apply there anyway? They've made their own decisions about when abortion is acceptable. I don't think that decriminalising it in the UK would change anything in NI.

[AgathaMystery]

I think it will be the impetus for change. It's sickening.

[bumbleymummy]

I actually think a change in the law would make them even less likely to bring themselves in line with the rest of the UK.

[AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou]

I don't think that decriminalising it in the UK would change anything in NI

NI is part of the UK. If you can't even get your geography right, what makes you think you should get an opinion on the law there?

[bumbleymummy]

AndTake, I'm well aware of that, thanks! I lived there for years! Just to be perfectly clear, I don't think decriminalising it in mainland UK would change anything in NI.

I've heard back from DisillusionedAnarchist and she says she isn't offended. She thinks the more people who know that the 'incompatible with life' label is offensive, the better.

[AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou]

I've heard back from DisillusionedAnarchist and she says she isn't offended. She thinks the more people who know that the 'incompatible with life' label is offensive, the better

Thats nice that you asked one person, but they don't get to decide what is and is not offensive in general. They can only say what they personally find offensive, which has little bearing on what other people find offensive.

I find you and all of your comments offensive but that doesn't( unfortunately) mean that you cease to exist. A bit like a lot of terminiology.

[FutureGadgetsLab]

find you and all of your comments offensive but that doesn't( unfortunately) mean that you cease to exist. A bit like a lot of terminiology.

That was really fucking rude.

[AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou]

Yes it was, I apologise. I'm having a bad day.

[bumbleymummy]

It's nothing new Future.

AndTake, there is currently a campaign running to change the use of the 'IWL' terminology so no, one person may not get to decide but their opinion can make people reconsider and that can make a difference to whether or not it continues to be used.

[MangoMoon]

Whatever the terminology Bumbly, some people cannot reconcile themselves with potentially a lifetime of caring full time for what is going to be a disabled child.

As I said before, when the baby is born it becomes 'my child' and I would fight for that child til my death - but prior to term it is not a child yet to many, many people.

It is a brutal and very often offensive viewpoint, but it is a valid view shared by many people.

By introducing an individual who made a harrowing choice to keep on with a pregnancy on this thread - where other posters have shared their heart wrenching stories of choosing the opposite is a low blow imo.