Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.

Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.

There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

Billsykesdog - how is that quote 'pro late abortion?'

I read it as pro-a woman's right to make her own choices about her pregnancy.

It's not saying that a late abortion is better than an earlier one, is it? The main reason that women contact abortion providers after 20 weeks is because they've only just found out/faced the fact that they're pregnant. The delay in access to services increases the likelihood of an abortion being 'late'.

But then, people who actually strongly support abortion up to 24 weeks, and even certain circumstances afterwards, are regularly being described as 'prolifers' on this thread, even when they've pointed out they're not. Oh, and fuckwits and misogynists etc, etc.

So I don't really care if other people are bothered by semantics.

The problem with the terminology is that most people are in favour of early abortion being legal and most people consider their position to be 'pro choice' as opposed to 'pro life'. Then it turns out 0.2% of people (i have no idea this is a guess) actually consider the only pro choice position to mean abortion is legal right up until being in labour and everyone else is a pro life misogynist.

Have people actually said 'pro late abortion' on this thread?

I agree bibbity. I think some people are just being goady tbh.

Or, Bombardier, some people feel that at a particular point in the pregnancy the foetus is a 'person' in its own right.

Some people feel it is at the point of conception, others, as seen here, feel until the point of birth. Most people, I would say, opt for a 'middle ground' between 14-24 weeks, I would say.

If you think people are being goady, then report their posts.

Claiming 'goadiness' is often a way to avoid actually engaging with an argument imvhe.

PlentyOfPubeGardens thank god someone actually reads things instead of being obsessed with the late abortion thing.

Why focus on that? Well you said it. To provoke outrage, rather than it be shown to be a reasonable point of view.

katemiddleton the right for individual women to make their own choices in their own pregnancy is exactly what those of us who support the decriminalisation of abortion are arguing for.

Different women will make different choices, even in different pregnancies. None of these should be subjected to the criminal justice system.

But then, people who actually strongly support abortion up to 24 weeks, and even certain circumstances afterwards, are regularly being described as 'prolifers' on this thread, even when they've pointed out they're not. Oh, and fuckwits and misogynists etc, etc.

That's really irritating me. I am not pro life and I dislike being painted as such because I am uneasy with late term abortion.

PubeGarden thanks for that post, that's condensed it. If this issue is about decriminalising abortion rather than lifting the limit, I support that.

I still support offering inductions early if women want them, due to autonomy.

At the moment, any woman who takes steps to end her own pregnancy without the consent of 2 doctors can be prosecuted under the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861.

The 1967 Abortion Act didn't 'legalise' abortion; it created loopholes to permit women, in some circumstances and with the consent of 2 doctors, not to be prosecuted for having an abortion.

The decriminalisation of abortion would give all pregnant women the right to make decisions about their pregnancy, without fear of prosecution.

Yes, I think I'm on the same page as you, Future

Really, it's terribly upsetting - I don't even like thinking about it, but we have to I suppose.

Christina, I know accusations of goadiness can be used to avoid engaging with people but, in this case, I think calling people misogynists/fuckwits and accusing them of thinking of women as incubators and talking about 'baaabbbbeeeeesss' because they don't agree with abortion to term isn't exactly engaging in discussion - it's just being goady. Plenty of people on this thread with opposing views have managed to have a perfectly civil discussion without resorting to such nonsense. It's a shame some people seem to think it strengthens their argument.

Report the posts then, bumble.

Do you really think I need you to tell me to report something? In any case, Goady-fuckerness isn't currently covered in Talk Guidelines so it's unlikely MNHQ will do anything. It might be better to let everyone see how ridiculous some posters are anyway.

I think we have to be careful about the implications of this proposal - personally, I have no problem with protecting women from prosecution. But that's not the same thing as legalising late abortion. And we need to think through what we're actually opening the door to.

I don't hate women or see them as incubators any more than I think pro-choicers hate babies. It's ludicrous, manipulative and juvenile to think of it in those terms. I think pro-choicers have weighted their value system differently in a situation that pits two very deserving lives up against each other - and come up with a solution that prioritises women's rights and feelings rather more than I feel is appropriate, with 100% of the care, compassion and respect for human life awarded to women and zero to the baby. Does this mean they hate babies? Of course not. Pro-lifers, on the other hand, want to even this out just a little - not even to 50/50 really, given that most pro-lifers are in favour of termination at any stage if a woman is in severe danger. Does that mean we hate women or see their existence purely in terms of their pregnancy. Oh don't be ridiculous.

Your language is extremely abusive and nasty SGB and has been all thread - and yes I will report your posts tomorrow if I can be arsed

Not going to engage because forced birthers make me seethe, but I will say that I 100% agree with everything SGB has said on this thread.

SGB - you could equally say what the fuck has it got to do with any of us if someone we don't know murders their child or partner. Ultimately it has nothing to do with us as strangers but we are still probably going to be shocked.

The people who are whining and handwringing are having a problem with the idea of terminating the life of a human who is seen as an individual or a parasite depending on which end of the birthing process they happen to be (to boil it right down to the basics). But you know that.

Yes, posts from SGB and her cohorts are very abusive rude and nasty, and her last post quite frankly makes no sense.

Please can someone explain to a bear of little brain why organ donation has made its way into this discussion.

I can only answer for myself. It is the same gut reaction i have to a mother smothering her newborn child. I am mostly very sad. But i dont think it should be legal. I am very very uncomfortable with termination of any fetus that could survive outside the womb because, at the heart of it, i see them as babies at that stage.