Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.

Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.

There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

I am being genuine here
How is the baby removed after an abortion at 36 weeks if not by some form of birth - either c section or vaginal?
Surely 'giving birth' has to happen?
I can see that a woman would not want to be traced. Personally, i think we could find a way round that if we tried eg the right to be anonymous on a birth cert, as a man can be

Okay, when do we get to decide on the medical needs of men on a case by case basis? Should we be involved if he wishes to have a vasectomy? Should that be decided on a case by case basis?

Forgive me for being a tad more reasonable and not having jumped to such a combative position:

Case by case basis: what is best for the individual woman, as decided by her and her medical support as opposed to a blanket legislation that automatically criminalises women for such a decision.

It's a difficult thing to discuss. I AM pro choice and I respect a woman's choice but at 36 weeks that foetus could be born live and have no health issues if the mother was to go into spontaneous labour. It brings up the question of where is the line drawn? A day before the due date? A week? Two weeks? During labour?

That's why I think after a certain point, induction is a better option. Again it's a question of when.

That's why I think after a certain point, induction is a better option. Again it's a question of when.

Yes it's a good idea in theory but again the when is a big problem. You then also have to look at what if the woman has escaped an abusive relationship. She wants an abortion but is denied and is offered an induction instead. Dad tracks her down and wants custody rights over baby. No evidence for prosecution for abuse so father is allowed custody which then results in a possible terrible upbringing for baby. Especially if it's a girl. What woman would want that for a child?

It's never black or white

That's why I think after a certain point, induction is a better option. Again it's a question of when.

Which surely is only a decision that can be made between a doctor and patient rather than a line in the sand drawn by the law.

NeedACleverNN - I did suggest earlier that maybe "termination of pregnancy" could have the same end result for both bio parents as abortion. Currently the father has no say in the choice to abort so the same principle could apply to termination of pregnancy. That will cut all ties.

That's a good idea milk.

Would it be treated like an abortion as such that instead of the life being terminated the rights are terminated? Therefore as such like abortion the father wouldn't have a chance to intervene? That could possibly work

My view
Abortion on request no medical agreement needed up to limit of pregnancy viability (dont know what this is called eg 24 weeks)

Woman wants end to pregnancy after 24 weeks has that right but not the right to end a viable life. At this stage it is partly a medical decision how that is to take place in best interests of child (and mother if it risks her health to have a live birth - does this happen?) either live birth or abortion. Mother can remain anonymous on birth cert if she wants.

Which surely is only a decision that can be made between a doctor and patient rather than a line in the sand drawn by the law.

Perhaps. I'm unsure. It's not an easy decision.

NeedACleverNN - yes, basically. I think it would also give a chance of escape to women whose partners turn abusive at some point after the current cut off.

SGB is talking absolute nonsense. As has already been discussed on this thread, it is perfectly possible for a woman to exercise bodily autonomy without terminating at the later stages of pregnancy. Some people may disagree about when induction could be used as a viable alternative but you are on pretty shaky ground if you are trying to insist that the only way a woman can have bodily autonomy at something like 35 weeks+ is if she can terminate the foetus rather than

It's also ridiculous to say 'there are no documented records of late term abortions for 'social' reasons'.' Of course there aren't! It's currently illegal!

(Which is why some of the research those figures are based on is anonymously gathered - I took part in one 2 years ago and was very honest about the illegal activity they were collecting data about)

JillyTheDependableBoot

you induce labour so a baby whose health is compromised anyway is born at 30 weeks and if it survives will have disabilities that will mean it spends the next 18 years in care and possibly never lives independently... Is that really a better outcome than terminating the pregnancy? Really?

Fucking hell. Yeah, kill all the disabled babies in care - they'd be better off.

"Okay, when do we get to decide on the medical needs of men on a case by case basis?"

When their medical needs involve a second potentially viable life perhaps?

Not the same thing at all Buffy, as discussed earlier on the thread.

No! I have already explained what I meant by the post that comment responded too. It is another of those red herrings... a misinterpretation that I have clarified:

Case by case basis: what is best for the individual woman, as decided by her and her medical support as opposed to a blanket legislation that automatically criminalises women for such a decision

Not donating is a passive action. If you do nothing, the person will die.

Not aborting is passive action, if you do nothing the foetus will live (or has a chance).

For the foetus to die you have to actively kill it.

It's the difference between letting someone die and actively killing them. I'm not saying abortion is murder but I'm explaining why the donor example isn't the same.

"Okay, when do we get to decide on the medical needs of men on a case by case basis?"

When their medical needs involve a second potentially viable life perhaps?

In that case any woman of child bearing age should be treated like a factory production line, just in case, they have a second potentially viable life because women and doctors can't be trusted to make decisions on a case by case basis. They should have second class care instead of individualised care.

I personally think that it is not a right choose abortion, the later a pregnancy progresses the more the morality of abortion is questionable