Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

[ThatsMyStapler]

Surely the majority of people needing/wanting a medical abortion do so for very good reasons, and also as quickly as is possible.

Royal College of Midwives backs abolition of abortion law that could see women terminate unborn child at any point

Telegraph Link

he Royal College of Midwives (RCM) is facing criticism after calling for abortion to be decriminalised, without consulting its members on the issue.
The union, which represents almost 30,000 midwives and health workers, has said it gives its “full support” to the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s biggest abortion provider, in its campaign for abortion to be removed from criminal law.
Prof Cathy Warwick, chief executive of the RCM, is also chairman of the board of trustees of BPAS.
It is currently against the law for women to terminate a foetus after 24 weeks unless there is a medical reason to do so, while abortions earlier in a pregnancy are only legal if two doctors agree to it.
But the RCM is backing calls for the legal limits to be scrapped and abortion to instead be regulated in the same way as other medical procedures, at the discretion of doctors.

There is a petition to stop this, and they say;

"Your campaign is severely out of touch with what women actually think and want. A ComRes poll in March 2014 found that 88% of women favoured a total and explicit ban on sex-selective abortion, whilst another in October that year registered a similar figure of 85%. The March poll also found 92% of women agreeing that a woman requesting an abortion should always be seen in person by a qualified doctor. Whilst in 2006, a Guardian / MORI poll found that 47% of women wanted a reduction in the upper time limit, a 2012 Angus Reid poll found this number had increased to 59% of women."

What could happen to a woman that is so stressful it justifies killing a child?

Well that tells me all I need to know about you really, the fact you can't comprehend why a woman would consider a late term abortion shows what your reality is like and renders your opinion invalid.

For me my ex basically kept me pregnant for years, I had no access to contraception, not even access to a doctor, I was pregnant 8 times in 10 years.

I was beaten, raped, made to sleep on the floor, humiliated, isolated, it was hell. The reason I stayed was for my children, although now I'm out of it I see that's why I should have left.

Hearing other stories from women in the refuge made me realise I had it easy compared to some of them.

These men use any bit of leverage to continue to abuse, I fully support women being able to decide to cut that tie to have some semblance of a normal life.

If you do not support, in principle, the idea that any woman should be able to terminate her pregancy at any time, for any reason, then you are a misogynist. Because you are claiming that your (irrelevant, sentimental, irrational, superstitous) feelings are more important than the bodily autonomy of women you have never met and whose lives and choices are NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS EVER.

And don't even start with your imaginary friend.

I have twins. They were born at 33 weeks and yes, they have some disabilities, some associated with being prem, some have other factors. They have been through some absolutely hellish tests before they were even six months old. They are 19 and still suffering from some of the effects of having been so very premature. I wouldn't change a thing, but that's my decision and may not be the same thinking as the woman next to me. That doesn't make her decision any less valid, whatever her reasons.

Jilly I don't think a gestational age has been discussed for when the induction then NICU scenario could occur.

Obviously a 24 week old wouldn't have much chance. However I don't think saying because there isn't much chance, abortion is better is necessarily right either.

Actually you know what's REALLY FUCKING ME OFF about the pro-lifers on this thread?

Its the fact they also seem to be the individuals with the biggest lack of awareness of mental health issues. Instead of suggesting improvement of mental health services, its women who are 'too lazy to go through 9 months of pregnancy' or 'too weak to put up with the pregnancy for a few more weeks' and other such language.

In their language of their 'solutions' to abortion, mental health does not feature. Why? Why do they have a problem with acknowledging that mental health is a problem that needs to be tackled?

Is it because that because it punches holes in some of their arguments and because it if you ignore the problem you can pretend it doesn't exist?

SGB it's not misogynistic, nor is it based on feelings. It's based, at least in my view, on viability. Factual evidence.

Disagree with me by all means but don't claim it's misogynistic.

Red I hope you're not referring to me. I'm not pro life nor am I ignorant of mental health.

Why can't the woman put up with a few more weeks of being pregnant in order to save what could be a life time of poor health for the baby in this scenario who is induced early?

It's tempting to think this. But, I suspect that women who are a few weeks away from birth, and yet feel that they need to abort, are in such a bad state mentally/physically/emotionally that it would not simply be a case of "putting up with a few more weeks of pregnancy". It would be torture - enough to drive some women to suicide perhaps. I think we need to trust that women do not lightly decide to have late term abortions rather than continuing and putting up for adoption.

SGB - is it important that the termination of the pregnancy ends in the termination of the life? Is it misogynistic to support ending the pregnancy without ending the life?

Cross posted with FluffyPersian whose story proves my point.

Nope. If you support any restrictions on abortion, you are a misogynist. End of. You are willing to put women's lives at risk because of your idiot delusions and sentimentality.

You hate and despise women. You thik it's perfectly all right for a woman to be chained to a hospital bed and drugged until the foetus is viable, at which point she is anaesthatised and cut open for it to be removed. You genuinely believe that women are uncontrollable, vicious, selfish sluts who, given the chance, will abort a healthy nine-month foetus because they'd rather go to a party that night than give birth. You'd rather make up stories about women who do that (there are no documented cases on record AT ALL of women having very late abortions for 'social' reasons) than look at the number of women who have died because they were refused abortions even though their foetuses were not viable - or had in fact died in utero already.

Oh, and you are a particularly misogynistic shitbag if you oppose abortion 'except in cases of rape'. Because that's not about 'caring for babies' at all, that's about punishing women for having sex.

Oh dear SGB - that's not what I think at all. I made a post earlier today about how it could possibly be done that a woman's responsibility should end with her decision to terminate the pregnancy. Only a couple of people have mentioned "hanging on until the foetus is viable".

Tbh your rant at women who don't agree with you is rather misogynistic itself.

Well said SGB I agree 100%

Milktwosugars have a read of the experiences of very premature babies posted on this thread.

It is an indisputable medical fact that foetuses have the best chance of a good quality life the nearer to term they are born.

If you're going to argue for some sort of fetal 'right to life', doesn't that foetus have the right to the best quality of life available to it? If a women wishes to end a pregnancy at 24 weeks, shouldn't that foetus have a 'right' to stay inutero for another 10 weeks or so, to improve its life chances?

It's impossible to uphold women's rights to make choices about their own pregnancy and the 'rights of the fetus' at the same time, from a legal perspective.

And all the people arguing that abortion is okay at any stage if the foetus has a disability. Are you intending to argue that a disabled life is somehow less valuable than a (at the time) non-disabled one?

FGL I wasn't referring to you.

HOWEVER

Seeing as you single yourself out here, can I ask about the figures that Eve posted

Only 211 of them were post 24 weeks. 202 of those were for congenital malformations.
46 of them were over 32 weeks. All 46 were for congenital reason

So of those 9 cases which were not for congenital reasons, are you saying that your judgment about viability is better placed and superior to the doctors who treated those women and decided that for their mental health an abortion was preferable, despite being over the legal cut off of 24 weeks.

Are you saying that suicide is not an issue for maternal mental health and something that should be seriously considered?

Are you saying that the doctors involved in treating those women should, struck off, be held criminally responsible and should be found guilty of a criminal offence?

Are you saying that your judgment about viability would hold up in court over and above the professional judgement of those doctors?

Because if you are, you have a point. If you aren't, then yes you are ignorant of mental health issues.

I'll leave that one with you to ponder and suggest if you think you have a point, you speak to the CPS.

this is so interesting, as the strong (violently held) opinions in some cases are somewhat extreme for me.

take for example But, I suspect that women who are a few weeks away from birth, and yet feel that they need to abort, are in such a bad state mentally/physically/emotionally that it would not simply be a case of "putting up with a few more weeks of pregnancy". It would be torture - enough to drive some women to suicide perhaps

are we actually saying that a mentally ill woman a few weeks from birth should not be denied an abortion, did I actually read that?

are we saying the life of this woman is more viable than a 36 week foetus?

Sgb who made you Pope ?

Geez.

Christina - no I don't think it should. I don't think a foetus's right to life should trump the woman's right to end the pregnancy. At the moment late abortion is not legal, except in certain circumstances and I was trying to think of a way that it could be legal while still considering the baby. I was trying to think of a way where women could choose to end a pregnancy without the trauma of knowing that they're ending a life.

Yes indeed we are stopfucking.

Also solid gold brass. Is aborting a fetus for being the wrong sex wrong too?

is condemning the abortion of female foetuses in some societies mysogonistic too?

I

are we actually saying that a mentally ill woman a few weeks from birth should not be denied an abortion, did I actually read that?

Already addressed that one upthread. I do however object to the language of telling a woman to 'put up with the pregnancy' rather than her mental health needs to be appropriately supported.

Simply because its the language of suggesting that she is somehow weak either physically and emotionally and this is her fault and something that she can somehow control by herself.

christinarossetti

right, well I disagree. very strongly. But lets leave it at that hey