to think that my mum should have sounded a bit more willing to come home?

[Arrowfanatic]

My grandad (mums dad) is very unwell. This last couple of weeks he's taken a turn for the worse and is pretty much in bed most days (he has cancer, and is 85). My nan understandably is finding this hard to deal with, she's the kind of person who doesn't stop and expects everyone to be up, dressed and showered every day no matter what by early morning. My grandad is too weak, due to the nature of his cancer he can barely eat and he wants to stay in bed or just sit in his PJ's all day.

My mum is abroad to help my sister who is heavily pregnant with her third and plans to stay after her c-sec to help (my sister does have a husband btw).

I called my mum explained everything and suggested she may want to consider citing her trip short as grandad is due a scan soon and I expect it to say the cancer has spread. In which case I know that my nan is likely to get very upset and my already depressed grandad is likely to get even more down. I just feel I can't cope with this on my own. I have several young children myself and although a sahm and a few streets away from my grandparents I'm pretty busy as can be expected with a mother. However when I suggested this to her she just said she has an open ticket and if she feels it necessary she will come but I got the sense that she literally just means should he die.

Maybe I'm bu, and I need to act like a grown up but this man is pretty much my dad and I simply don't feel like if things get much worse that I could cope. Since mum has been gone I've had to arrange extra doctors appts to their home, nurse visits, try to persuade them to have home help, and generally be there.

I suppose on one hand I'm scared about the future, and want my mum here to take the lead over HER parents. But she is so blasé about it all, truthfully I think she's just having a blast abroad and doesn't want to deal with her elderly parents as she's not that kind of daughter iyswim.

My nan just rang me crying. My grandad is having a bad day and he's being horrible to her. She's trying to help him and he's swearing at her. I'm sure it's because he's frustrated and in pain, and he knows he can take it out on her. I offered to come pick her up and take her for a cuppa whilst grandad calms down but she won't leave him. What am I supposed to do when this happens??? I know he doesn't mean it, but she's so upset. A few of you on here say you have experience of dealing with this kind of thing so any advice? What do I do???

Can you speak to his medical team? It's very distressing to see someone lash out like that. My dad did it last time I visited him. It could be that his medication needs to be altered? Do you have a district nurse/community nurse team you can contact?

What about social services? Is the adult team aware?

But I'd definitely go and take your nan out - or even just make her sit with you in the kitchen and have a cup of tea/coffee.

I would do what you did - listen to her, sympathise, offer her a distraction (you take her out/you sit w grandad whilst she goes out/a visit) if and only if I had time on that day but accept it if she only wanted to vent.

I would also speak to McMillian/Cancer care/Social Services/GP/whoever is appropriate even if my gran didn't want me to because I'd be worried that my grandpa wasn't getting adequate pain relief and proper nursing.

While I agree that the whole family owes a level of support, the fact remains that no one is offering this. The OPs mum knows this and seemingly doesn't care about the impact on the OP.

I don't think the mum should never be able to go anywhere because she has sick parents but I do believe that caring for them is more her responsibility than her dd's and I don't think it is fair to go abroad for several months (which is the plan I think) knowing that the OP is basically on her own with this.

This is a woman who has told the OP she wish's they would hurry up and die so she can get her inheritance!

Oh arrow - this is so hard for you. I can just hear how burdened you feel by all this.

Can you get over there? If you can without too many issues, then your presence just for 45 minutes or so may be a calming one. If you can't get away, though, you can't.

In your shoes, I would also try to suggest gently to my nan that having carers in would be a valuable way to preserve his dignity. 'Granddad's a proud man, he's not going to want you to see him weak - it will be easier for him if someone comes in. The most important thing is that you can enjoy the life you have together'. That kind of thing. Being a stuck record can sometimes work. They really, really need to accept the need for more help.

for you. xxx

Stop rushing over there and immediately offering yourself as the solution.

Tell her to calm down and go somewhere he isn't and have a cup of tea or something. She is upset not in danger or ill.

They are still adults despite being old - and have been married a long time. Is there some reason she can't calmly tell him not to talk to her like that - something along lines " I know you are in pain but I don't like being sworn at ".

This isn't a need for support this is drama - stop feeding it. Go over when you can or try and deal remotely with your GP pain - can a GP visit ( not always possible) - is an appointment needed to help manage pain? Or is this someone having a crap day or being wound up by your GM demands when he doesn't feel like dealing?

YANBU. I've been there in the situation you're describing and your Nan will need a lot of emotional support as well as your poor grandad who will need all the physical help as well as emotional. Can a nurse or medical professional explain your granddads condition to your Nan so she can understand how he can't just get up and get dressed on a morning?

It sounds to me like your mum should absolutely be making her parents a priority but she may be finding it hard to face up to or maybe she doesn't care. Either way, if she is at home is she going to offer the support and help you need? I don't think you should have to do this alone but she doesn't sound as though she'll be a massive help. I'd tell her straight: "Mum, your Dad is very very ill and he's struggling day to day. His quality of life is poor and Nan is struggling to cope and understand. I am doing my best to balance their needs with my family and I can't stretch far enough. I need more help and I think you should be here." After that there's not much else you can do.

Good luck.

What your Gran is doing to your Mum is unfair. As I said earlier, I think that you are getting a bit of a snapshot of what your mother deals with and you're seeing that it's not nice or easy. It sounds as though your mother is on the end of some rather manipulative and emotionally blackmailing behaviour from her mother.

I don't think agreeing with your Grandmother and saying to her that your mother should be doing all this is helpful or will resolve anything. You need to emphasise to her that no amount of crying or demanding or expectation is going to change your mother's mind and she needs to plan for the reality of the situation which is that she needs help from elsewhere.

I think what you need to do is speak to the local sources of support again, social services social care dept, the district nurse, possibly Macmillan. Ask them if they will come in and talk to your grandmother about the help available and what they will do and how they they can meet your Grandmother's expectations. They will be used to people who are resistant and hopefully know how to tackle this.

If you are not coping don't be afraid to take a step back and tell your Grandmother that you can't help and she needs to look at alternatives. This is what your mother has done. I think you stepping in is to some extent enabling her behaviour and continuing to allow her to make demands on others rather than facing up to the fact that she needs help from elsewhere. It seems like there is a battle of wills where your grandmother is determined to browbeat your mother into caring for them, and your mother is equally determined not to. I think you and your Gran need to face up to the reality of the situation rather than hoping your mother can be pressured into a change of heart. You need to change your focus, and her focus onto sorting out care with the reality of the situation now, not holding out for your mother to do something which may well never happen.

Alliteratively ring one of your siblings or your I think Uncle and see if they can pop in at lunchtime or after work - to check on them as they are having a bad day. Or have them ring as a distraction to your Grandmother.

Also having other people in the house or coming round would mean your GM wouldn't have to bear the brunt of your GF reaction to pain - might help it feel less personal. Maybe later on when you can get round point out that extra help could help her and stop her having to get so upset by his actions.

The macmillan nurses (uk) are fantastic, when my dad was dying of cancer they were a phone call away and always visit if needed. Maybe your mum just can't bare the thought of any of it and wanted to get away. Everyone deals with grief and death differently and it could be her way of coping with it. I loved my dad and he was a brilliant father to me. He died at 59 from a work related cancer. Towards the end when it had spread to the brain, he started to have fits. As much as I loved him and wanted to support my mum, I just could not bare to be there watching it all. from diagnosis to when he passed was 8 weeks, so, please don't take this the wrong way, we were thankful it didn't drag on for months as my mum couldn't have coped with it.

I sense that there's a world of complicated relationship between your mum and her parents (not necessarily all her fault or all theirs, mind you) and that she is quite happy to be able to give the (valid) reason of 'I'm helping your sister' as her justification for not returning at this time. You don't have any of that complicated backstory with your grandparents, though; you're just seeing them hurting and so you consequently feel upset at your mother's perceived cruelty.

I can see that it must be very hard for you to cope with - you have done absolutely nothing to cause any of this and yet you're stuck in the middle of a bloody emotional mess (probably being encouraged by your nan to join in conversations about how unfeeling your mum is, I imagine, which will cause you even more inner guilt in the long run).

My take-home message would be to gently divert your nan from talking about your mum and to focus on other topics. Don't dwell on your mum's perceived cruelty, because you'll be using it as a crutch in order to not deal with your sadness at your granddad's possible death. IME such crutches become set in stone and are very very hard to discard later on, because discarding the crutch would mean feeling the pain and no-one ever wants that. So we lie to ourselves, often forever, and pass the lie on to our children.

You will lose any chance of a good relationship with your mum if you let yourself resent her behaviour now. Focus on your nan and granddad, not your mum, and deal with the situation as it comes.

I am sorry that you're going through this

I agree - now is the time to ask for help from GP, Macmillan, social services - that's what they are there for. I know the older generation don't like to ask for help (I know sweeping generalisation), but even if you could drop everything and go to your grandparents - you can't help with the pain situation.

I know others have advised to step away - and I do see the logic of that however I would offer to contact the GP / Macmillan and possibly social services and arrange emergency visits, and if you can it's important try to be there when they visit. One thing I do know is that your GPs will be asked what type of help they want, and their answer may well be - oh we're alright, we've got Arrow. You need to be there to say what input, if any, you can provide. And you mustn't feel obliged. Ask for everything - pain relief, Macmillan visits, social services for personal care, the whole shebang. coz as soon as someone says - we're alright - they'll be off. If you can't be there - make it crystal clear to the GP etc, what you are able to provide. And its OK for it to be the weekly shop / popping in once a day for a cuppa.

It might be once all this process starts your mum may feel able to return. It is her Dad dying and that's a Big Thing and she could be scared and by being with your sister, she feels more in control.

Please don't feel you're letting anyone down by asking for help - either here or GP, Macmillan, whoever

I've just been through it all, BIWI.

I don't think my family will ever be the same again - it was pretty dysfunctional to start with - but the unresolved resentments are going to leave scars.

I feel I identify most with the mum in this. I had easyjet carting me around from responsibility to responsibility, a female relative guilt tripping me with an agenda, and an elderly relative cancelling all care arrangements put in place by me ... madness.

OP, what help does your grandfather actually need? 'Support' for your nan is quite an amorphous thing. I think you may have to be a little more assertive about getting at least one agency or charity to do an assessment visit.

Sympathies

Oh OP I feel for you. I agree with DPotter and LaContessa's words of wisdom: Involve some external agencies, start putting out the word to your siblings etc that more help will be needed and work out what help and support you can provide without losing your own family life. Make sure you are clear with social services and or GP that you have additional responsibilities - otherwise your GP's will say they are managing fine and that they have you available.

I've been in a similar situation with responsibility for a very tricky grandparent (understatement). My mum had died a few years earlier and I tried very hard to step in and fill her shoes but the strain was enormous (heaven only knows how she coped for so long).

You're not a one woman army. But neither is your mum.

Refusing help is very common in the elderly. What they are not doing though, is refusing ALL help. They are being selective in who they want. It seems that they want you and your mum, sadly neither if you can physically meet there expectations.

Put your hard hat on and steel yourself not to give in. It took forever for my parents to accept help from outside agencies. Meanwhile I became a wreck with the constant demands. As others as said, this could be a long haul. It is easy for us outsiders to tell you what to do, but do not think for a minute, that we underestimate the tug on your heart strings, or the guilt.

The best outcome would be for some-one not so emotially tied to them to tell the, some home truths, and for them to listen and act accordingly. It won't happen overnight, but hopefully if you are able to withdraw slightly they may see reality.

Your Grandparents obviously need help which they expect to be provided by your Mother and/or you. Yes your Sister and other family members should get involved but in your position I would explain to GPs that there is a limit to how much you are able to do and your Mother is not currently on the scene so they must accept help in the home, whatever that may be. Macmillan nurse, care assistants to help with bathing etc.

It may sound harsh but it's totally unrealistic for them to expect you to do it all.

I don't think your DM is wrong to remain with your pregnant sister - she has chosen that as her priority at the moment.

I think 'elderly help refusal' is a real issue and growing, and the fall-out is dumped mostly on female relatives.

I agree liney. There seem to be a set of very odd issues around privacy connected to it ('I don't want strangers in my home'), a set of issues connected to competence ('Needing help is shameful') along with a set of anxieties about managing someone ('What if they don't do a good job?'). All of these things are deemed to be mitigated with female relatives, because they're already in the private sphere and are bossable.

In many, many families, it is gendered, I think, and it is contributing to the huge burden on women who have a career AND children AND parents to care for.

... and in my case, a refusal by a sibling to accept the cost of it, even though it's not their money they'd be spending

Snapshot view of course, but it sounds like your what your nan can't get from your mum she is now trying to get from you.

What your nan wants is not achievable. Please don't break yourself on the altar of trying to fulfill her wants either yourself or by persuading someone else to do it.

I agree that outside agencies will likely have much better luck persuading your GPs to accept outside help.

Good luck, and try not to blame your mum too much.

I still can't believe some posters expect your Mum to drop everything and rush to help her parents because they are too stubborn to accept external assistance. You say that your Granny expects only a bit of compassion and moral support while at the same time you say that she wants your Mum to be there to help with your Grandpa who suffers from cancer but she still wants him to be properly dressed and behaved even though he himself doesn't care.
Your Mum has gone to help your sister who is also in genuine need of support. If you can't help your Granny why don't you simply explain your grandparents that they might accept external assistance because their family have their own lives too. It sounds like you expect your Mum to rush over at the drop of the hat without considering her and what could be behind her apparent lack of support. Maybe she just wants to be somewhere where she is appreciated.

It reads like it's your nan who is the biggest problem here. Must be very hard for her but it sounds like she's making life harder for herself and everyone else, including her husband tbh. I'm afraid I don't have any advice on how to tackle this though.

Your GPs have to accept that they need help from outside agencies. I think contacting social services, Macmillan etc is a good idea because this is a way you can actually help practically. Getting other agencies involved helps all concerned, including you as the weight of your GP's expectation won't fall so heavily on you.

In fact rather than sympathising over and over with your GM about your mother choosing to support your sister it would probably be a good plan if instead you started to say that DSis needs your DM to your GM at the moment and accept it yourself. Your sister does need her mother and for a more defined period than your GPs. Post DSis' c-section recovery your DM will come home.

The scan may show the cancer has spread but you don't know for certain this is the case. Any growth may be slow, again you don't know this. Your GF may have several months to live at the moment you don't know. And your DM hasn't said she definitely won't come home. So stop being so angry with her because otherwise your own relationship will suffer irrevocably.

Update: my grandad is in hospital having blood transfusions, he's really sick. They are pretty sure he has leukaemia and are running the necessary tests. The hospital has told us to prepare for the worst in the next few days.

Meanwhile, my sister had her baby (naturally, no section in the end), and my mum has decided instead of going home she's going to go on a driving holiday of Europe with her cheating scum bag ex boyfriend.

Say what you will but I'm really annoyed she's not making plans to come home in the next week or two. She's planning a 2 month holiday on top of the few weeks she's already been gone.

Sorry about your grandad. Fwiw, I think your mum should come home, if not for her dad then for you. I think you have had an unfairly harsh time on this thread - posters seemed to have missed the bit where your mum was wishing your gps were dead so she could spend her inheritance! I do agree with poster who saidcshe was unlikely to be the support you needed even if she was here, so best to take her out of the equation when you make plans.